Football Hooligans - AGAIN

[317666]

I agree to what somebody said earlier, about how the football clubs should be made to pay the damage costs caused by their fans. By no means am I for tarring people with the same brush, but I think in this case it's a minority spoiling it for everybody.

 

[sprite]

I agree to what somebody said earlier, about how the football clubs should be made to pay the damage costs caused by their fans. By no means am I for tarring people with the same brush, but I think in this case it's a minority spoiling it for everybody.

But why? The people causing the damage are acting irresponsibly, by saying to them it is no longer their responsibillity to pay for the damage you are reinforcing that idea.

 

[neilmc]

Football fans are citizens who have (or ought to have) exactly the same rights as everybody else. One of my friends is a mad Manchester City fan who attends all the away games if he can (he's also a male nurse!) and is quite law-abiding but it's embarrassing to hear tales of how he's treated like scum by greater scum just because he likes to watch football. I'm glad it's not my hobby!

If you are behaving yourself you should be allowed to travel by bus, car, train or helicopter to a soccer ground unmolested. Period. In view of some of the bad behaviour I've seen on certain trains, anyone with notebooks, cameras, spotters books and hats with badges should be barred from any loco-hauled train in the public timetable, and perhaps the British Transport police should be allowed to start smacking a few heads at the ends of platforms just for the fun of it.

 

[Badger]

This is getting silly. Yes, there are good and bad football fans, there are good and bad in any group, but the fact is that football hooligans exist, that can't be ignored.

Everyone deserves rights, unless they are actively taking away the rights of other people.

 

[317666]

But why? The people causing the damage are acting irresponsibly, by saying to them it is no longer their responsibillity to pay for the damage you are reinforcing that idea.

Good point actually, didn't think of that. Maybe if it was up to the club to ban certain members who are causing the trouble from attending matches then it would help, but to me it looks like not much is going to change in the foreseeable future.

 

[Flamingo]

I speak as a Swansea City fan and have travelled on trains to Cardiff many times over the years and vice versa Cardiff fans during the 80's & 90's and it was like world war 3 from 11:00-23:00, South Wales Police have been making fans travel on coaches now for about 15 yrs when we play each other we are surrounded by Police up and down the M4 but there was still 24 arrests the time we played them in the carling cup.

If you are talking about real nasty problems on the trains with people,alcohol and causing trouble just go to Cardiff Central on a rugby international day you would have hell of a surprise

A few years back after an England game there were 45 arrests in Cardiff that day/night.

All too true, unfortunately. I know a Cardiff fan who lives in Swansea, and has to travel to Cardiff, get on a bus to Swansea, watch the game, and get on the bus back to Cardiff, to travel back to Swansea.

And I am personally of the opinion that the Wales 0ver 70's blind bowling team would have supporters that would cause trouble. I am NOT looking forward to Sunday. Mind you, my wife has often commented that as soon as you leave the Millennium Stadium the atmosphere and the crowd changes.

(and don't get me started on the Bath rugby fans...)

 

[ainsworth74]

Is this why you hardly ever have football special trains anymore, because of troublesome fans?

No that's more due to the lack of their being any suitable rolling stock around. Back in the day (well BR's day anyway) it was fairly easy to cobble together a rake of Mk1s and stick some manner of motive power on the front with a driver and guard that both signed the route it needed to take. Costs were fairly low (you're only directly paying wages and fuel) and it didn't take up too much rolling stock.

These days there aren't any Mk1s (or many of their equivalents) sat around waiting for a turn, there aren't many suitable locomotives any more either! But the biggest killer is cost now that same sort of service would have to pay track access charges as well as wages and fuel, also the rolling stock would have to come from within the available fleet (as no TOC is going to pay to lease stock that it might only use once or twice a week) but not many TOCs have all that much slack in their rolling stock pools.

It's a sad casualty of the way that privatisation was carried out really. They do still exist to a degree as TOCs will try if they can to double up services around the times that things get busy or even run series of one off services Northern to Manchester United Halt for example or ATWs RUGGEXs to/from Cardiff.

 

[Anon Mouse]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-16965343

Sounds like 2N42 16:43 Hexham to Middlesbrough by Northern. I assume this is most likely a Class 156.

no arrests were made either, makes me ashamed to be a Sunderland fan

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Football hooliganism has declined markedly since the 80's, 70's, 60's and even the 50's (Arthur Askey was portrayed as a football hooligan train driver throwing a meat pie at the ref in a 50's film.). There are idiots at matches there but there is overkill with every minor incident being blown out of proportion. One man in a football stand making ape gestures gets more media coverage than the murders, shootings and stabbings that are becoming the norm on our city streets. The overwhelming majority of football matches in this country are trouble free especially when compared to other European countries. We always overplay our problems and while the small number of incidents are unpleasant they are isolated and you do know where to expect them. However, one thing noticeable is that since football hooliganism has declined random Saturday night drunken violence in our town and city centres has markedly increased. Are the two by any chance related ? I don't see a call to make the bars, brewers and distillers pay for the mayhem they cause and provide transport for their clientelle after an evenings over indulgence. There are a few isolated incidents but compared to most of what else is going on it is relatively minor.

 

[ivanhoe]

I agree to what somebody said earlier, about how the football clubs should be made to pay the damage costs caused by their fans. By no means am I for tarring people with the same brush, but I think in this case it's a minority spoiling it for everybody.

No! No! No! No! No! Clubs are not responsible for their fans behaviour on trains unless they have officially chartered them. I travel regularly on trains to watch football. If there is trouble, the common denominator is drink. Just like at night on some trains when the trouble is usually local middle class kids.

Two things for you;
The majority(80%) do not travel by train to watch football
The 20% who do are by and large well behaved and bring valuable receipts to weekend

Oh and stop joining bandwagons!

 

[34D]

How do you know they were deffinately football fans? How do you know that some of the people not causing trouble were not football fans, I assume you took the time to ask each and everyone one of them if they supported a football team, or just enjoyed the sport in general to have come to this sweeping judgement.

All wearing the same football colours - is that sufficient?

All of the people calling for mandatory coaches to away games, so you think it is reasonable that people who like me don't live where my team is for a multitude of reasons should have to travel there to then travel onwards. So say I wanted to goto the Burnley vs Leeds game last year, instead of going from Manchester to Burnley you'd have me travel Manchester to Leeds then to Burnley and the reverse back?

Well it was your choice to move from Leeds to Manchester. Other football teams are available. Maybe this is a little over the top, but if the cardiff-swansea coaches help improve safety for civilians then I'm all for it.

 

[TDK]

The problem is you are always going to get people who are going to cause trouble, what ever sport or event you go too. I've been going to Tottenham games home and away for twenty years and only had any trouble three times. So to say its "them and us" is just not true in my experience

Name other sports that have the same level of hooliganism? I can't think of any, many football fans are good decent people but the minority are just mutants

 

[Minilad]

Good point actually, didn't think of that. Maybe if it was up to the club to ban certain members who are causing the trouble from attending matches then it would help, but to me it looks like not much is going to change in the foreseeable future.

Take it you haven't heard of football banning orders then
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Name other sports that have the same level of hooliganism? I can't think of any, many football fans are good decent people but the minority are just mutants

Rugby. It just happens to take place on the pitch though

 

[Madge Wildfire]

All too true, unfortunately. I know a Cardiff fan who lives in Swansea, and has to travel to Cardiff, get on a bus to Swansea, watch the game, and get on the bus back to Cardiff, to travel back to Swansea.

And I am personally of the opinion that the Wales 0ver 70's blind bowling team would have supporters that would cause trouble. I am NOT looking forward to Sunday. Mind you, my wife has often commented that as soon as you leave the Millennium Stadium the atmosphere and the crowd changes.

Yes, that is true. The atmosphere turns rather quiet and almost sinister, although it can depend on the final score. I believe that some people coming away from the stadium deliberately walk into others who they think are not Welsh, just to get them to speak so they can detect their nationality.

Then you get others that just shout something in Welsh at your face. Of course it might be a very complimentary comment, but given the tone of voice I dont think so.

 

[Minilad]

Yes, that is true. The atmosphere turns rather quiet and almost sinister, although it can depend on the final score. I believe that some people coming away from the stadium deliberately walk into others who they think are not Welsh, just to get them to speak so they can detect their nationality.

Then you get others that just shout something in Welsh at your face. Of course it might be a very complimentary comment, but given the tone of voice I dont think so.

So maybe we should ban Welsh people then

 

[Yew]

Guess that is why a unID'ed (no number) copper shoved me to the ground for stopping to tie my shoe lace when walking back to the station from Crystal Palace's ground last year screaming "KEEP MOVING".

I trust you have reported this to the IPCC? A copper in incorrect uniform assaulting a member of the public ?

 

[Minilad]

I trust you have reported this to the IPCC? A copper in incorrect uniform assaulting a member of the public ?

Unfortunately an all too common occurrence at football matches I'm afraid. And no left wing luvvies to stand up for football fans rights like there is when the police get up to no good against protesting students and such like

 

[34D]

So maybe we should ban Welsh people then

Doesn't the law this anyway (in Hereford and Chester only)? http://www.vincelewis.net/law.html
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So maybe we should ban Welsh people then

Doesn't the law allow this anyway (in Hereford and Chester only)? http://www.vincelewis.net/law.html

HEREFORD

It is illegal to shoot a Welshman in a Cathedral with a long bow on Sundays.

CHESTER

You may only shoot a Welshman with a bow and arrow within the city walls after midnight.

 

[AntoniC]

But what you have to remeber in this case. Is that its the minority, not all football fans are hooligans! , neither racists, or go with the intention to cause damage.

Me & my Dad Get the train from Southport to Sandhills (and back) after we go and watch Liverpool play @ Anfield and neither we (or the other fans) are tempted to trash the train home.

 

[OuterDistant]

All wearing the same football colours - is that sufficient?

FWIW, the true hooligans don't wear their team's colours.

 

[Oswyntail]

Doesn't the law this anyway (in Hereford and Chester only)? http://www.vincelewis.net/law.html
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Doesn't the law allow this anyway (in Hereford and Chester only)? http://www.vincelewis.net/law.html

HEREFORD

It is illegal to shoot a Welshman in a Cathedral with a long bow on Sundays.

CHESTER

You may only shoot a Welshman with a bow and arrow within the city walls after midnight.

Sorry - utter urban myth.

 

[Flamingo]

ATWs RUGGEXs to/from Cardiff.

Whatever about the valleys trains but the majority of seats between Swansea and Newport are supplied by FGW specials (and routines) especially if the game is on a Sunday where ATW basically don't run between Swansea and Cardiff

 

[balne-wonderer]

Leeds Fans in the World and Ken Bates is against us shocker.. I speak from years of experience of transporting their 'Fans' across the country with the train not always intact.

And to anyone who thinks Rugby Union Fans are better than football, tell that to my London line colleagues where police are essential on international/ 6 nations days, TMs and CHs don't go down the train for their own safety.

Leicester Tigers Games are Hell too.

You need to be careful how you generalise Bellwater

I'm a Leeds fan, home and away traveller. Travel by train often as do my mates and missus. We've never been involved in any bother and i've never seen any bother from other Leeds fans on the same train as me.

Your comments are making you look like a bit of a fool.
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I recall one my BEST ever train journeys was actually on a football trip. This season actually, P'Boro away.

Going down was straight forward but on the way back the train was diverted because of works at Grantham. We ended up going past Spalding, Sleaford and Lincoln before heading South to Newark and then back up to Leeds. 3 and a half hour trip! The train was being towed by a Diesel to Newark then an Electric was put on. It was fasinating and very interesting for a geek like me.

And just to add to that, the train actually ran out of beer. Yes I drunk plenty as did alot of the lads but there was no bother, no chanting, no sillyness, no anger. Just a load of lads (as a few lasses) discussing the game whilst I was glued to the window enjoying the countryside. Brilliant trip. Football and trains, to me, a great combination.

 

[Stonesourscotty]

142022 on Wigan Football with a 150 presume this was a extra? with lots of complaints about the awful 142 seats.

 

[Anon Mouse]

Sorry - utter urban myth.

But it is true if you replace Welsh with Scots in York

 

[ainsworth74]

Whatever about the valleys trains but the majority of seats between Swansea and Newport are supplied by FGW specials (and routines) especially if the game is on a Sunday where ATW basically don't run between Swansea and Cardiff

I'm not an expert on the services I've mentioned (for one thing I don't live near Wales!) but from my understanding those services tend to run between North and South Wales due to them using the same rolling stock as the WAG Express (just without the Mk3 buffet). So it seems perfectly reasonable that on the axis you mention FGW would be providing most of the capacity.

 

[Oswyntail]

But it is true if you replace Welsh with Scots in York

Nope it aint. (Writing as a Yorkshire archer!)

 

[Anon Mouse]

Nope it aint. (Writing as a Yorkshire archer!)

thats a pity!

 

[Bellwater]

You need to be careful how you generalise Bellwater

I'm a Leeds fan, home and away traveller. Travel by train often as do my mates and missus. We've never been involved in any bother and i've never seen any bother from other Leeds fans on the same train as me.

Your comments are making you look like a bit of a fool..

Here come the Threats then. (No Surprise).

I said Leeds were the worst travelling fans I've had on(Service and Special)and I get the following.

Did I say ALL Leeds Fans are hooligans?
Did I say Leeds Fans were morons?
Did I say Leeds Fans were idiots?

I don't think I did? Do you want to check the thread? I'll wait for you.

 

[Flamingo]

I'm not an expert on the services I've mentioned (for one thing I don't live near Wales!) but from my understanding those services tend to run between North and South Wales due to them using the same rolling stock as the WAG Express (just without the Mk3 buffet). So it seems perfectly reasonable that on the axis you mention FGW would be providing most of the capacity.

True. Anyway, wish me luck today, I'm just out to work them!