What warrants a station being operated by Network Rail?

[charlee]

What warrants a station being operated by Network Rail? Is it the amount of passengers that use the station or is it location wise? Is it just the lagrest stations?

What do they gain by managing these stations? I just find it really strange that they would take on this work. Is it becuase they are to "important" to get wrong, and therefore they want to make sure they are run correctly?

 

[exile]

I understand that retail turnover is the deciding factor which I take to mean ticket sales. NR can make a profit by renting out retail space eg for shops, restaurants. I suspect they'd operate all stations if allowed to.

 

[Michael.Y]

A station where a large number of franchises visit? such as Manchester Picc? so as not to disadvantage one franchise over others?

 

[Eagle]

A station where a large number of franchises visit?

What about Waterloo, Charing Cross, Cannon Street, Fenchurch Street, Paddington and Liverpool Street? All served by one franchise only.

And what about Doncaster, Crewe, Stoke, Stockport, Liverpool South Parkway, Haymarket? All served by at least five franchises.

 

[Zoe]

Fenchurch Street is managed by Network Rail, Marylebone isn't. Any reason for this?

 

[Eagle]

Fenchurch Street is managed by Network Rail, Marylebone isn't. Any reason for this?

Any reason why Gatwick is, when more major stations like Reading, Bristol and Crewe aren't?

 

[WatcherZero]

Officially its where there are multiple franchises using the station and no one overall dominant franchise to assign responsibility too. For example if there were three franchises using a station but one had 80% of services they would assign it to that one.

 

[ainsworth74]

I suspect they'd operate all stations if allowed to.

Doubt it. But I do think they'd operate all the stations where there is a decent retail market. So for example I don't think they'd be interested in Longbeck (two wooden platforms and two plastic bus shelters) but they would be interested in Hull (booking office, WH Smiths and two coffee shops with plenty of footfall).

Any reason why Gatwick is, when more major stations like Reading, Bristol and Crewe aren't?

It isn't any more it was handed over to Southern recently (or will be soon).

 

[Barn]

What warrants a station being operated by Network Rail? Is it the amount of passengers that use the station or is it location wise? Is it just the lagrest stations?

What do they gain by managing these stations? I just find it really strange that they would take on this work. Is it becuase they are to "important" to get wrong, and therefore they want to make sure they are run correctly?

Thing is, even at NR stations, most of the actual day-to-day operations seem to be carried out by TOCs. Ticket offices, gatelines, principal customer information desks, etc.

I imagine the main reason for NR to stay involved is the income from letting retail concessions.

 

[Zoe]

Officially its where there are multiple franchises using the station and no one overall dominant franchise to assign responsibility too. For example if there were three franchises using a station but one had 80% of services they would assign it to that one.

In the case of Waterloo I think it is very clear which is the dominant franchise but this didn't stop the management of the station going to Network Rail.

 

[Eagle]

Officially its where there are multiple franchises using the station and no one overall dominant franchise to assign responsibility to...

So what about all the London terminals then?

And there are loads of examples where the dominant franchise doesn't operate the station; usually an ex-IC franchise takes precedence over an ex-RR one (like Rugby; VWC > LM ex-CT), and an ex-NSE one trumps both (like MKC; LM ex-Silverlink > VWC). And XC can't operate anything, of course.

 

[Zoe]

Thing is, even at NR stations, most of the actual day-to-day operations seem to be carried out by TOCs. Ticket offices, gatelines, principal customer information desks, etc.

Although at Birmingham New Street, train dispatch is done by Network Rail.

 

[Eagle]

Although at Birmingham New Street, train dispatch is done by Network Rail.

But everything else is LM.

 

[Barn]

Although at Birmingham New Street, train dispatch is done by Network Rail.

That bit seems to vary. At London Bridge, for example, it's done by TOC staff.

 

[Zoe]

That bit seems to vary. At London Bridge, for example, it's done by TOC staff.

Yes, Birmingham New Street seems quite unusual, are there any other stations where dispatch is done by Network Rail?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

But everything else is LM.

Any reason why Network Rail do the train dispatch then? I believe it used to be done by Central.

 

[route:oxford]

Yes, Birmingham New Street seems quite unusual, are there any other stations where dispatch is done by Network Rail?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Any reason why Network Rail do the train dispatch then? I believe it used to be done by Central.

Perhaps Network Rail take charge due to previous TOC conflict?

Or perhaps they decided to take control of dispatch at major "underground" stations on the network.

 

[BrummyBoy]

But everything else is LM.

Except the Virgin staff who work in the ticket office

 

[bnm]

As regards rent from retail concessions, wouldn't this go to Network Rail from all stations on the network? They are the landlords after all and TOCs come and go.

Would seem a bit of a faff if retail outlets' rental agreements have to be rewritten every time a TOC changes.

 

[Zoe]

Would seem a bit of a faff if retail outlets' rental agreements have to be rewritten every time a TOC changes.

If barriers are installed though I'd have thought the agreement would need to be changed unless the previous agreement was that they were for the use by passengers only as there would be a decline in revenue.

 

[WatcherZero]

As regards rent from retail concessions, wouldn't this go to Network Rail from all stations on the network? They are the landlords after all and TOCs come and go.

Would seem a bit of a faff if retail outlets' rental agreements have to be rewritten every time a TOC changes.

Would appear not as Northern have revoked the concessions of several store holders recently and the lease deal was with Northern not Network Rail. Virgin have allegedly been planning to build Virgin Money banks at several stations they will operate if the franchise is renewed.

 

[Barn]

As regards rent from retail concessions, wouldn't this go to Network Rail from all stations on the network? They are the landlords after all and TOCs come and go.

Would seem a bit of a faff if retail outlets' rental agreements have to be rewritten every time a TOC changes.

The TOC would have a lease and the shop an underlease. The underlease would continue even if the head lease was assigned to a new TOC.

 

[AlterEgo]

Virgin have allegedly been planning to build Virgin Money banks at several stations they will operate if the franchise is renewed.

Where did you hear this?

 

[tony_mac]

“Virgin Money I’m sure would be interested in opening up banks along the line,” Branson said yesterday in an interview

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-08/branson-plans-banks-at-rail-stations-after-northern-rock-bid.html

 

[David Goddard]

Any reason why Gatwick is, when more major stations like Reading, Bristol and Crewe aren't?

Gatwick has recently transferred to Southern, but lets not go there regarding mention of that franchise on this forum!

 

[whhistle]

Any reason why Gatwick is, when more major stations like Reading, Bristol and Crewe aren't?

Crewe isn't really major anymore. Not like it used to be. But then it depends what you call major. . . number of services? Destinations reached? Trains per hour?

Officially its where there are multiple franchises using the station and no one overall dominant franchise to assign responsibility too. For example if there were three franchises using a station but one had 80% of services they would assign it to that one.

Going by that, Rugby should really be London Midland then?

But everything else is LM.

Apart from the information desk on the left of the Palisades gate-line.
Oh and the floor walkers being run by Virgin.
And the travel centre staff.


I just always saw it as major/large stations around the network.

Plus, as Network Rail own all the stations anyway, they get income from retail units regardless of who manages the station. But then maybe it's different at different stations as I know many outlets that are empty because Network Rail's rent is too much.

Seems to be a lot of "I think it's this" being said in a "matter-of-fact" way in this thread :-? :roll:

 

[NLC1072]

Any reason why Gatwick is, when more major stations like Reading, Bristol and Crewe aren't?

it isn't any more!... Southern have GTW iirc

 

[dvboy]

Interesting from the West Coast Franchise invitation to tender:

Bidders must detail how they will facilitate the provision, staffing and maintenance of new
ITSO smart ticketing compliant gate lines at Birmingham New Street Station which will be
provided as part of the Gateway Project.
The new franchise will be required to staff and maintain the gate lines from the completion
of the New Street Concourse works as part of Gateway Phase 2 (anticipated by July 2015)
and will be required to carry out any necessary back of house functions linking in with their
role as lead retailer.
Page 27 ICWC Franchise –Invitation to Tender
We expect the cost of the operation and maintenance of the new gate lines to be shared
between the operators. Bidders will be expected to devise a mechanism to recover the
share of the cost of the operation and maintenance of the gates from other operators, in
proportion to Qualifying Expenditure ratios.
When Phase 1 opens there will be no change to the arrangements for gate lines. London
Midland currently staffs the gate lines. We expect them to continue to staff the gate lines
until the complete concourse opens as part of the end of Gateway Phase 2. The new
operator will take over responsibility from the opening of the full concourse, from the
completion of Phase 2 or at the end of the London Midland Franchise or sooner by
agreement between the relevant TOCs and NR

 

[WatcherZero]

Going by that, Rugby should really be London Midland then?

Indeed since the 2008 timetable change London Midland is the dominant operator, this would could be addressed on London Midland franchise renewal as the current WCML franchise renewal includes it (though unlike other stations theres no calls for investment there), if they were considering changing stewardship im sure the bidders would have had a few quiet words in the ear in advance giving them a heads up.