Class 90 unreliable?

[CosherB]

I've heard reports (and it's been said on the 'Bletchley' thread) that 90s are not very reliable. Since they are based on the earlier 87s, why is this?

And why do we have no 87s on our railways now but we still retain the inferior 90s? Wouldn't it have been better to get rid of the 90s and keep some 87s instead?

 

[NSEFAN]

The 87s are considerably older; the 87s were built in 1973, the 90s in 1987. The 87s that are still in the UK have been left out to rot in various locations, (with a couple of exceptions) so would probably cost a fortune to get working again, if at all.

90s aren't bad, but from my understanding a lot of them are badly treated, especially by DBS. They are sophisticated machines and don't like being left out in the cold. I suspect it's the same problem that existed with the class 50s: they were good locos when they were working correctly, but a bit too complex for their own good.

 

[Schnellzug]

it does seem to be that electronics get obsolescent rather quicker than old fashioned steam age technology. The 90s and 91s were (I suppose) state of the Art when they were built, but the Art changes quickly, and now it seems to be not as easy to get replacements for electronic components; same with a car from the same era.

 

[tbtc]

I guess the question is "why have the 91s kept running thousands of miles each week whilst the 90s have generally been sidelined"? Is it because of the GNER refurbs of the 91s ten years ago?

The higher top speed of a 91 will come into it, but the 90s should be fairly versatile still if they were made out of the same stuff...

 

[Schnellzug]

I guess the question is "why have the 91s kept running thousands of miles each week whilst the 90s have generally been sidelined"? Is it because of the GNER refurbs of the 91s ten years ago?

The higher top speed of a 91 will come into it, but the 90s should be fairly versatile still if they were made out of the same stuff...

is the reason that they were sidelined because EWS, and now DBS, didn't really know what to do with them, since they'd ordered way more 66s than they really needed, so they used them on work that electrics could have been used for? While Freightliner would probably say that they could do with some more, which seems to be another reason for problems with reliability, since perhaps theirs are over worked. Particularly since I suppose there'll be one more out of traffic for a while now.

 

[SchnofRail]

I travel to norwich from clacton daily for work, basically the class 90's were the first ones to roll of the production line so they have been used on ECML, WCML, postal duties,freight, and now back to passenger as we got them several years ago from Virgin Trains, some have been refurbed. Initially a few problems causing failures, so not to bad now, but main issue is the pickup, too slow and still running with slam door stock.

Class 321 and 317 are running to Norwich now on regular basis, because overall they are faster, but also to allow for Class 90 refurbs taking place ??

However I think that the demise of the 90 for passenger may tail off, saying that I did hear the Abelio what like to get rid of the class 317 off the Greater Anglia Franchise which they take over tomorrow(5/2/2012)

 

[junglejames]

90s are extremely reliable. but like everything, need to be looked after. A year or 2 back, the most reliable Intercity fleets were NXEAs 90s and Mk3s, and ECs 91s and Mk4s.
They also have very good acceleration. Better than 91s to 110, and better than the 86s or 87s could manage.

 

[dk1]

90s are extremely reliable. but like everything, need to be looked after.

Exactly. Got a crackin fleet on the GEML now. Bit of TLC is all these girls need.

 

[37402]

Reliable? Why do you think they earned the 'Skoda' nickname?

 

[SchnofRail]

Yes I agree for the ones that have been refurbed they are fast at getting to line speed, it will be interesting to see if the Greater Anglia(abellio) continues with those refurbs. Only trouble with Abellio, they have a short franchise and will they be bothered ???

 

[dk1]

Yes I agree for the ones that have been refurbed they are fast at getting to line speed, it will be interesting to see if the Greater Anglia(abellio) continues with those refurbs. Only trouble with Abellio, they have a short franchise and will they be bothered ???

Most definatley. It is planned to have all locos with proper branding within 2 weeks. Took NX years. Continuing purge on any loco performance issues.

 

[46100ROYALSCOT]

Reliable? Why do you think they earned the 'Skoda' nickname?

aren't Skoda owned by VW?. now that DB own most 90's surely some Vorsprung Durch Technik woudnt go amiss

 

[captainbigun]

The 90s and 91s were built to a price. Walk through an 87 then walk through a 90. The difference in build quality is clear. The 90 shares a number of components with the 87, bogies and motors (a SEPEX variant of the GEC 412) being the two major ones. The tap changer control is swapped for phase angle control. It's the corners that were cut to get the class in on budget that ultimately made themless reliable than their predecessors. It's no coincidence that VT returned the 90s before the 87s. I've yet to meet a driver who'd prefer a 90 over an 87. The driver has control over the latter, the micro the former.

The 91s had a major rebuild (1997-2000ish) which addressed the issues seen since original build. The 90s really needed the same to get their figures up.

 

[junglejames]

Yes I agree for the ones that have been refurbed they are fast at getting to line speed, it will be interesting to see if the Greater Anglia(abellio) continues with those refurbs. Only trouble with Abellio, they have a short franchise and will they be bothered ???

Its not just refurbed ones that have good acceleration. They have always had good acceleration.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Reliable? Why do you think they earned the 'Skoda' nickname?

Eh, because of the jealous ones around at the time.
Anyway, whilst they may not have been brilliant at first (what is?), those that are looked after are now very reliable.
DB do not look after them at all.

 

[87015]

Exactly. Got a crackin fleet on the GEML now. Bit of TLC is all these girls need.

Hmm, when was the last time 90001 put in a decent stint?

 

[CosherB]

And of course 87s look better! A timeless classic design, whereas the 90 was styled to look 'modern' and so looks tired and dated today.

 

[junglejames]

And of course 87s look better! A timeless classic design, whereas the 90 was styled to look 'modern' and so looks tired and dated today.

I'll agree the 87 is timeless. Lovely looking locos. Good choice of loco as well. What a name The Wolf had!

Disagree on 90s though. I dont think they look tired and dated. In fact, despite the 87 being a classic design, you could say they have always, and will always, look more dated than 90s.