Bletchley Derailment

[A-driver]

185 actually appears to be a driver and is not putting blame on the driver, is just explaining some of the factors that can cause human error.

 

[185]

185, so you are blaming a Virgin driver without knowing if it was driver error or not? There are any number of reasons why the speed was exceeded. Just got an axe to grind perhaps.

....an axe to grind against shambolic lying train operators

You defend Virgin, a train company who distorted the real reason for the accident, they plastered 'A Freightliner train' everwhere - but not mentioning it was hired by their own holier-than-thou company. Did they jump the gun blame freightliner without knowing it was their own company? Somehow I think they already knew.

 

[The_Stig]

None of my comments are pointing the blame at the Driver, but the reliability of the locomotive & maintenance regime.


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So because a driver has moaned and said you can't blame the driver it's okay to shift the blame onto maintenance staff?

Perhaps you could concentrate on something else other than aimless finger-pointing and wait for the professionals to determine the actual cause.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

a train company who distorted the real reason

And pray what is the real reason? I don't think even the RAIB know yet.

 

[richw]

I really hope that I'm reading this post the wrong way or missing something but would 'MKDRIVER' please let us know the source of this? Your screen name suggests you are also a driver and so I would be very disappointed if you are and have posted this...were you there? Have you told the RAIB this theory?

MKDrivers post was from a NR press release, although the NR press release i saw didnt state exact speeds, just that it was going to fast.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Looking beyond the usual Virgin Rail rhetoric.....

Virgin Trains
"We are sorry but due to a Freightliner locomotive........"

Meanwhile.... the actual Truth
......A HIRED FREIGHTLINER LOCOMOTIVE BEING DRIVEN BY A VIRGIN DRIVER........

Will Virgin apologise? Seriously doubt it.

Is that bright yellow and green locomotive, with 'Freightliner' printed in big letters on the side, a Freightliner locomotive? If so, they were factually correct in what they have said. To Joe Public, a Freightliner locomotive is a Virgin locomotive is a Scotrail locomotive. Seems like you're having a pretty cheap shot at Virgin to me.

 

[badzena]

Why would there be an apology ? Its an accident and accidents happen, was nice to see the people who would usually moan at London Midland yesterday on Twitter actually being nice about it and saying things like "i hope the driver gets better soon" - shows commuters arent just robots

Also, no point speculating until the RAIB report comes out.

I never understand people who say "no point speculating until the report comes out". Surely the whole point of speculation is to theorise without firm evidence?

 

[GB]

Well what use is there to speculate in cases like this?

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Time this thread was locked I think ...

The good work on the recovery has been done , trains are running , - 4 tracks back by 0600 Monday we hope. Let things run their course.

 

[Mystic Force]

Well what use is there to speculate in cases like this?

Because it gives us something to do. I also learn something by it. Sometimes its about how the railway operates sometimes its how some peoples minds work which infirms me how I sjould view their other posts. We clearly won't know till the official report comes out what actually happened but to suggest that people shouldn't continue to think through how thus occured fails to pass some kind of reasonability test. People are free not to join in. People make the choice to say silly things lile people choose to cross lines without proper consideration..........

When people say you shouldnt question railway practices if you are not an expert but I tend to be nervous when people tell you there is nothing to see here, not that I like to be watched while working, but for many people it is a fact of their job. Sometimes it takes a fresh pair of eyes to see it.

 

[jaigee]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but there are now OLE problems between Berkhamsted and Hemel Hempstead as well.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/sa7fef7a150a47c394911eb081e36263/details.html

 

[MK Tom]

Locking the thread would be premature (if 4 tracks back by 6.00 Monday then definitely not until then) but I think all the debating and speculating about causes should be left until more facts are officially released. Speculating in itself is actually fine if it's made clear that's all it is but you can't say anything without somebody jumping on it and accusing you of blaming someone.

 

[A-driver]

The problem isn't with speculation but with people making Ill informed comments on individuals with little knowledge. It is fine to speculate on the possible causes but I feel very uncomfortable with people making comments which firmly point the finger at a colleague of mine and even have the audacity to go as far as to suggest he will loose his livelyhood.

Of course if someone is found to blame then they will be dealt with but that will and should be by people who's job it is to do so. People with the facts and experience. Not by transporters with a grudge against drivers for whatever reason. One of the worst things about my job is that so many people think they know how to do it and are just waiting to pounce when they think I have done it wrong without a full understanding of the rules, regulations, skills and possible challengers with driving trains.

As I say please don't personally attack the driver in this case until the facts are confirmed. I'm sure he has enough on his mind with the injuries, waiting for the outcome of the investigation, the severity of what he was involved in, how lucky he is to have survived etc and dosnt need people on these kind of sites pointing the finger without having the experience and knowledge.

 

[Whistler40145]

A-Driver. I don't work on the railways so I cannot make any comments regarding Drivers etc.


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[TDK]

They won't have even looked at the OTMR yet I suspect...

.

They will have done as soon as they could - you can download it to a laptop and read it instantly with the correct software

 

[Nym]

Theres one condition there that any goverment agency has a probelem with, "Correct Software"

 

[TDK]

Even if the driver had done a brake test when he set off, there is nothing to say that with a drop in temperature during its journey south that the brakes hadn't developed a loss of pressure due to frost.


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Frost does not normally impeded the brake force of a train

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The problem isn't with speculation but with people making ill informed comments on individuals with little knowledge. It is fine to speculate on the possible causes but I feel very uncomfortable with people making comments which firmly point the finger at a colleague of mine and even have the audacity to go as far as to suggest he will lose his livelihood.

A point that is very well made.

 

[Nym]

Paul, I find this happens a lot on these forums, people with little knowledge shouting down those who are reasonably well read or experienced in the areas that the're talking about...

The Waterloo Int. Sleeper thread being one good example...

 

[TDK]

90046 may have had a defect on its TPWS equipment, would this have caused the brakes not to automatically apply themselves when passing the signal protecting the crossover?

If this is found to be the case. This loco is operated by Freightliner, but at present on hire to Virgin, which company would get a roasting for it?


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If it had a fault a fault light would be illuminated in the cab - stop blooming 2nd guessing as what may have happened just be patient and wait for the RAIB report
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

......A HIRED FREIGHTLINER LOCOMOTIVE BEING DRIVEN BY A VIRGIN DRIVER........

Will Virgin apologise? Seriously doubt it.

Your source on who the driver actually works for?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Theres one condition there that any goverment agency has a probelem with, "Correct Software"

It will be the on call manager from the company the driver works for who will download the train

 

[AlterEgo]

I grow tired of seeing the same old agendas and axes to grind coming to the fore here.

 

[TDK]

I have read this whole thread and am amazed at some of the comments and reactions - until the RIAB report comes out no one can say what caused this unfortunate incident, it could be anything including driver error, signaller error, frozen points the list is endless - ok, so this is a forum for enthusiasts and rail workers to air their views but speculation on what could have happened by folks who really do not have a clue on how investigation works and what needs to be done to investigate such an incident is really a pointless waste of time -

You will all know soon enough waht happened - an by the way I was disgusted by one poster who hopes the loco was not damaged - a person has been injured here who gives a monkeys whether the loco is damaged.!!!!

 

[TheJRB]

My grandfather and I were travelling on LM's branches today, taking advantage of their Great Escape offer and got to Bletchley from the south at about 12 PM. I noticed that the track has been taken up at the affected area (I only got a quick glance though so I may be wrong) and a 66 was stopped at platform 1 with what appeared to be a load of sleepers (picture here). There was of course no sign of the 90.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Aye, was there when I passed back north about 1700 - the loco was facing south on the DF, just south of where the derailment occurred. I can't see the photo so I apologise if I've just described the same thing!

 

[phil8715]

I would like to add my voice to this thread in as much I hope the driver makes a speedy recovery.

There are maybe hundreds of reasons why this loco derailed, be it travelling too fast, the safety equipment failed or mechanical failure with the loco or the track or signalling or even human error.

It's too early to speculate the cause but I'm sure all will be revealed in the fullness of time.


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[Turbocharger]

I have read this whole thread and am amazed at some of the comments and reactions - until the RIAB report comes out no one can say what caused this unfortunate incident, it could be anything including driver error, signaller error, frozen points the list is endless - ok, so this is a forum for enthusiasts and rail workers to air their views but speculation on what could have happened by folks who really do not have a clue on how investigation works and what needs to be done to investigate such an incident is really a pointless waste of time -

I am sure there are many maritime forums having members posting about the recent tragic events of the Costa Concordia. And the speculations as to what members of those forums think may have been the cause of the incident.

Whether right or wrong, the whole point of forums is to allow a freedom of speech.

Are you saying no forum should allow personal comments or views or speculation of any kind on any such sort of incident, whether there is a loss of life or not?

Just telling people not to comment until an "Official" verdict is given is bordering dictatorship.

 

[185]

Your source on who the driver actually works for?

Seen it on a mate's fb status, he drives for Virgin. Then Railnews got hold of it, so can prob assume it's right.

"The Freightliner locomotive was being leased by Virgin, and was under the control of a Virgin driver. The driver was reported to have needed hospital treatment after the incident"

http://www.railnews.co.uk/news/general/2012/02/03-substantial-damage-caused-by-bletchley.html

 

[ole man]

You should know by now this forum doesn't let you speculate, as i have found out many times

 

[TDK]

I am sure there are many maritime forums having members posting about the recent tragic events of the Costa Concordia. And the speculations as to what members of those forums think may have been the cause of the incident.

Whether right or wrong, the whole point of forums is to allow a freedom of speech.

Are you saying no forum should allow personal comments or views or speculation of any kind on any such sort of incident, whether there is a loss of life or not?

Just telling people not to comment until an "Official" verdict is given is bordering dictatorship.

Come on Turbo you cannot really class the ferry disaster to a loco derailment - I have not said people MUST not speculate but if you are going to speculate it may be worthwhile speculating on something where you have some solid evidence - if I was that driver or anyone involved in this incident and I know it wasn't my fault I would not be happy with some of the comments on by people who really think they know how it all works when in fact they do not have a clue.

I could speculate and say - I have seen that the driver was at at stand at Blechley and this distance from the starter signal to the points is not enough to get to 50mph for the crossover and it must have been a points failure or the driver spadded the signal and smashed the points or any other statement but it is pointless making these comments if I do not know the route/layout or procedure for crossing from slow to fast in this location! OK so the press have said the driver was going too fast for the crossover but we do not as yet know why if this is a correct statement and as previously mentioned why should someone be upset and bothered if the loco is damaged as long as the driver or anyone else is ok this does not really matter

 

[The Planner]

Wonder if the CCF replay is still there.