Reverse blue/grey Pullman.

[CallySleeperKid]

By which I mean I mean

I have found a few references to these being hauled by class 55's, and a couple of them being hauled by 47, more closer to their withdrawal, But can anyone tell me the livery the 47's were likely to be that hauled these? I am guessing a version of BR Blue.

I ask as I have got a model of some of the coaches, so I either buy a Deltic of a 47 to go with them? Any help would be great.

 

[theblackwatch]

Yes it would have been a blue 47 or blue Deltic normally. The current Rail Express has a modellers guide to Deltic hauled trains and shows a selection of consists featuring these Pullman cars.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

As far as I know they were hauled by standard liveried locomotives and not anything dedicated to the services.

 

[CallySleeperKid]

Cheers guys, ill pick up a copy of Rail Express as soon as I can.

As for the blue livery for the 47, would it have been standard BR blue or something like large logo blue? I have had my eyes on a model of a 47 in large logo, buy a nice blue Deltic sounds good.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Not large logo; I think the Pullmans vanished before that appeared - apart from the Manchester Pullman on the WCML, which soldiered on a bit longer but that was electric hauled anyway.

 

[jopsuk]

The Protoype HST used that livery- and I'm sure I've seen a reference (though no picture) to at least one of the "Blue Pullman" trains being repainted like that.

 

[90019]

The Protoype HST used that livery- and I'm sure I've seen a reference (though no picture) to at least one of the "Blue Pullman" trains being repainted like that.

IIRC, they were all changed into that livery, not sure when though.

 

[Rugd1022]

Those Mk1 'Met-Camm' Pullman vehicles were built around 1960 and originally wore standard Pullman Burnt Umber and Cream livery, but some were painted in the reverse grey blue style from 1967 onwards, so if you're modelling that early period you can use green liveried Deltics, 47s, Peaks and 40s. In the early - mid 70s some of the coaches were put into store at Rugby and Northampton, some were still in the earlier livery at the time too.

You'll find all the info you need right here...

http://www.emgauge70s.co.uk/proto_pullman.html

 

[LE Greys]

The Protoype HST used that livery- and I'm sure I've seen a reference (though no picture) to at least one of the "Blue Pullman" trains being repainted like that.

It seems you are indeed right. This one was a bit far from her usual home at Bromley South (hence the image provenance that you can see). Not sure if the Brighton Belle ever went that colour.

Incidentally, the Met-Camm Pullmans are still in use on railtours, and you can tell them apart from older ones by the curved bodysides, Commonwealth bogies and DMU-type windows. They are basically MkIs which have been improved internally. If you read the Railway Magazine, look at P37 of last month's issue to see some on the Tees-Tyne Pullman when they were new, the difference is just visible.

 

[sprinterguy]

Not large logo; I think the Pullmans vanished before that appeared - apart from the Manchester Pullman on the WCML, which soldiered on a bit longer but that was electric hauled anyway.

Additonally, the Manchester Pullman vehicles were also the first loco hauled vehicles to be painted into the APT derived Intercity executive colour scheme in 1984, so the the reverse blue/grey BR Pullman livery definitely didn't survive into large logo days.

As jopsuk says, all the "Blue Pullman" diesel units were painted in the reverse blue/grey livery in 1967, after the two Midland region units had been transferred to the Western region.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Incidentally, the Met-Camm Pullmans are still in use on railtours, and you can tell them apart from older ones by the curved bodysides, Commonwealth bogies and DMU-type windows.

Indeed: West Coast Railway Company have a set in maroon, Vintage Trains a number in Umber and Cream and most of the Royal Scotsman formation is made up of the Met-Camm Pullmans.

Apparently the Brighton Belle EMUs and the remaining loco hauled "Golden Arrow" Pullman vehicles were painted in the standard blue and grey livery arranged sympathetically with the bodyside panels to follow the same dimensions as the traditional Pullman umber and cream livery: For a number of years in, I think, the mid eighties, Hornby produced a model of a "Golden Arrow" Pullman vehicle that typified this style.

 

[4SRKT]

There were no special loco liveries for anything at that time. The Pullmans wre just hauled by standard rail blue locos. I can remember the Manchester Pullman coaches just before they were taken off, and they were distinctive for being the only aircon mk IIs that were vacuum braked, meaning they couldn't be hauled by 87s.

Large logo blue was just a new version of rail blue, applied to certain classes, and generally locos in this livery were no more likely to work a particular service than one in 'standard', livery. The main exception to this being 37s in large logo being native to Eastfield and Inverness depots for passenger work (although they turned up on any 37 booked turn). Locos weren't allocated to pools in the same way as they are now. The first time I can recall a specific group of locos being painted in a livery that went with a dedicated service was the 47/7 'shove duffs' being painted into ScotRail livery.

It's hard to imagine a world of such limited liveries now. Indeed such was the conservatism that there was a huge fuss when 50007 was repainted into GWR green and renamed 'Sir Edward Elgar', not long after the last 50 (50013) had gone from standard livery to large logo, thereby upsetting the completeness of the class (both in name and livery terms). I have a copy of Rail Enthusiast from this time and there are actually several pages of correspondence on the subject. Most people I knew (including me) were very much in the anti camp BTW.

 

[Rugd1022]

Additonally, the Manchester Pullman vehicles were also the first loco hauled vehicles to be painted into the APT derived Intercity executive colour scheme in 1984, so the the reverse blue/grey BR Pullman livery definitely didn't survive into large logo days.

As jopsuk says, all the "Blue Pullman" diesel units were painted in the reverse blue/grey livery in 1967, after the two Midland region units had been transferred to the Western region.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Indeed: West Coast Railway Company have a set in maroon, Vintage Trains a number in Umber and Cream and most of the Royal Scotsman formation is made up of the Met-Camm Pullmans.

Apparently the Brighton Belle EMUs and the remaining loco hauled "Golden Arrow" Pullman vehicles were painted in the standard blue and grey livery arranged sympathetically with the bodyside panels to follow the same dimensions as the traditional Pullman umber and cream livery: For a number of years in, I think, the mid eighties, Hornby produced a model of a "Golden Arrow" Pullman vehicle that typified this style.

Not quite right regarding the Blue Pullman repaints Sprinterguy.... some of the vehicles weren't so treated until well into 1968, and for a while one of the WR eight car sets was running around with one half in original 'Nanking' blue and the other half in the new reversed grey / blue. One of the 'D&E On 35mm' videos also shows an eight car unit at Sonning Cutting filmed in the Summer of '68 still in original livery, but with full yellow ends added.