Lunacy in this country

[Donny Dave]

Rather than take the thread about a person hit at Barlaston hopelessy off-topic, I thought I would copy the post I'm after here, and start afresh.

Network Rail has been served with noise abatement orders by local authorities for whistling at certain crossings. And it does nothing for those in sound proofed cars or with headphones on.

Sadly, it's not just the railways that suffer. Croft circuit is limited to 40 "noisy" days a year due to a family moving to a property close to the track about 10 years ago, then complaining. North Yorkshire council upheld the complaint and put the restriction in place.

It's led to the owners of Croft to turn down a round of the British Superbike Championship this year, as they believe they can make more money from using those 3 days at some other point during the year for trackdays and driving experiences.

What makes the situation farcical now, is that the family in question have moved away, so the circuit owners applied to have the order reversed, and were told no ....

 

[WestCoast]

It really does make me laugh when people move near any obvious source of noise pollution (that might be a level crossing, airport, racing circuit e.t.c) and then complaint constantly about their suffering. I'm sorry, but you knew that before you moved out of choice!

 

[deltic1989]

In the case of people living near railways, and then complaining. The argument could be that the railway has been there for almost 200 years, it was there when they looked at the house, it was there when they chose to buy/rent the house. So its a case really of put up and shut up or move somewhere else. These type of situations seem to be the fallout of the British complaining culture, people thinking if you complain hard enough long enough then things will change, but then be the first to complain when the frequency of services on the line past thier house is decreased due to thier complaint and they can't get to work. Similar situation exist in parts of europe, Zurich airport i believe being an example of this, where they are forced to close one of thier runways every night as the final approach lies over German airspace, and directly crosses over a housing estate that was built long after the runway, I agree it is lunicy.

 

[NSEFAN]

These type of situations seem to be the fallout of the British complaining culture, people thinking if you complain hard enough long enough then things will change

The sad reality is that this method of getting what you want works very well, as the Elsenham crossing saga has shown. Once you have the backing of the national rags, getting what you want suddenly becomes a lot easier.

 

[Nym]

Oh for christ's sake! Croft Circuit was there before you, the railway was there before you, get over it or move!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Sorry for the DM link, but stuff like this both stuns and infuriates me!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-free-street-unveiled-make-things-SAFER.html

 

[NSEFAN]

Sorry for the DM link, but stuff like this both stuns and infuriates me!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ngs-SAFER.html

I can see why having less signage might things safer: people have to think for themselves and are consequently more aware of what's going on around them.

I've read a story about a road sign needing to be removed because it was a safety hazard. This case was especially ironic, since the sign was warning about "X many deaths in X many years"!

 

[WestCoast]

Sorry for the DM link, but stuff like this both stuns and infuriates me!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-free-street-unveiled-make-things-SAFER.html

'Shared spaces' can work very well if they are used on the appropriate streets, as documented in their successful use in many continental European cities, plus Australia and New Zealand. They shouldn't be used simply as traffic calming though, and should incorporate something to help those with sight problems identify boundaries (such as a rough surface).

Studies that compared accidents before and after have shown that in the majority of cases collisions with pedestrians actually fell when a shared space was introduced.

DM doesn't like it because it wasn't invented in Britain.

 

[Donny Dave]

Sorry for the DM link, but stuff like this both stuns and infuriates me!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-free-street-unveiled-make-things-SAFER.html

Why does it stun and infuriate you? That sort of thing works!

Way back in 2000 when I lived and worked in Holland, Noordwijk (which is where I lived) town centre, apart from having a couple of road signs had nothing. No lines, no pavements, etc. It looked as though it was a complete free for all, and with me being not only new to the area, I understood very little of the language and local culture. I was terrified.

It took me a couple of minutes to realise there was nothing to worry about. If there was a large group of pedestrians, cars slowed down and gave way, and vice versa. in the 4 months I was there, there was just 1 case of road rage (that from a British person) and no accidents. The police were not very visible either, usually just a pair of officers taking a gentle stroll around the area.

If it works there, it will work here.

 

[Minilad]

If it works there, it will work here.

I don't know so much. You only have to drive on the continent a short while to realise drivers there seem far more courteous and respectful than over here.

 

[WestCoast]

I don't know so much. You only have to drive on the continent a short while to realise drivers there seem far more courteous and respectful than over here.

I am not sure that is quite true of a number of Southern and Eastern European countries!

...and yes they do have shared spaces in Northern Italy!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Was more the £30,000,000 for half a mile of road and change to 'increase eye contact' that annoyed me.

 

[Minilad]

I am not sure that is quite true of a number of Southern and Eastern European countries!

...and yes they do have shared spaces in Northern Italy!

Good point..should amend to Northern Europe (The civilised bit)

 

[Nym]

And considering that £30mil could have paid for something significant to improve the lives of local communities in detrement, is it any wonder these projects see bad press?

 

[Oswyntail]

It really does make me laugh when people move near any obvious source of noise pollution (that might be a level crossing, airport, racing circuit e.t.c) and then complaint constantly about their suffering. I'm sorry, but you knew that before you moved out of choice!

There is always the possibility that noise levels have increased above a tolerable limit since you moved in.

 

[Nym]

All UK Race Circuits like Croft as part of the governing council (The MSA) rules have noise restrictions on vehicles that can be used, so there is no way that noise levels at any perticular time can increase. Since most vehicles are built to conform EXACTLY to these regulations. (Slightly higher than the rules for road vehicles)

 

[WestCoast]

There is always the possibility that noise levels have increased above a tolerable limit since you moved in.

However, there are plenty of cases where that isn't true.

And considering that £30mil could have paid for something significant to improve the lives of local communities in detrement, is it any wonder these projects see bad press?

Potentially, but I'm not always convinced that money used to help communities in need actually benefits them by the way it is used

 

[starrymarkb]

There is always the possibility that noise levels have increased above a tolerable limit since you moved in.

My friends have been like that, when they moved in the pub opposite was noisy at closing time but otherwise not a problem. Then the Manager changed and every saturday night became disco night until 3am. At a volume my friends couldn't sleep at (despite secondary glazing), even the man from the council was shocked by how loud it was...

 

[Butts]

It really does make me laugh when people move near any obvious source of noise pollution (that might be a level crossing, airport, racing circuit e.t.c) and then complaint constantly about their suffering. I'm sorry, but you knew that before you moved out of choice!

Very true I've even heard of "townies" moving into rural villages and complaining about Church Bells or Cockerels Crowing

 

[scotsman]

Very true I've even heard of "townies" moving into rural villages and complaining about Church Bells or Cockerels Crowing

Some cock in Hawick got an ASBO - made the news!

(Mind you, the amount of cocks that got them in Falkirk never!)

 

[LE Greys]

Very true I've even heard of "townies" moving into rural villages and complaining about Church Bells or Cockerels Crowing

You're lucky if you can hear the church bells in Graveley over the sound of the A1(M).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Why does it stun and infuriate you? That sort of thing works!

Way back in 2000 when I lived and worked in Holland, Noordwijk (which is where I lived) town centre, apart from having a couple of road signs had nothing. No lines, no pavements, etc. It looked as though it was a complete free for all, and with me being not only new to the area, I understood very little of the language and local culture. I was terrified.

It took me a couple of minutes to realise there was nothing to worry about. If there was a large group of pedestrians, cars slowed down and gave way, and vice versa. in the 4 months I was there, there was just 1 case of road rage (that from a British person) and no accidents. The police were not very visible either, usually just a pair of officers taking a gentle stroll around the area.

If it works there, it will work here.

Thing is, you're never quite sure which car is driven by a lunatic, which by someone who just can't admit that their sight is going, which by someone on their mobile phone. Personally, I'd have Armco barriers along the side of every street and only cross by footbridge if I had the choice, I don't trust drivers at all.

Which is ironic, considering the fact that I never in my life intend to get into an automatic car without a gun to my head.

 

[TheJRB]

This reminds me of some apartment blocks that are being built near the Eurostar flyover at Ashford. You know it's only so long before someone complains of the noise.

Oh and the shared space is something I can relate to too as we've had it here for a few years now. I like it, but the problem I feel is that just like walking with fellow pedestrians, you know there's going to be a point where one person intends to move, the other gives way, first gives way and then both want to go at the same time. Maybe not, but I can imagine. Overall though, it's made the area more pleasant than it was before.

 

[455driver]

Sorry for the DM link, but stuff like this both stuns and infuriates me!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-free-street-unveiled-make-things-SAFER.html

I love this line from the article-

The idea underlining the project is that when nannying rules and orders - in the form of countless signs, traffic signals and barriers - are removed, motorists take more personal responsibility for their own actions and drive more attentively, making more eye contact with pedestrians

Once again the onus is on the car driver to avoid accidents NOT the pedestrian!

 

[Rhondda Rudie]

We've got a noise abatement order in place at our depot which prevents shunting from midnight until 5am.The street the complaint came from is called Station Terrace and the houses were originally built to house railwaymen.

 

[dieselbashdave]

I'd move to a town that had a GA airport, a racing track and a level crossing used by HSTs to Sprinters - all my loves in the one place. Can't get better than lying in your back garden with a V8 championship growling nearby, with a Valenta screaming past the house on jointed track and a Piper knocking yer arial off as it turns to finals.

Or maybe I just need to get a life away from mechanical things

 

[deltic1989]

I'd move to a town that had a GA airport, a racing track and a level crossing used by HSTs to Sprinters - all my loves in the one place. Can't get better than lying in your back garden with a V8 championship growling nearby, with a Valenta screaming past the house on jointed track and a Piper knocking yer arial off as it turns to finals.

Or maybe I just need to get a life away from mechanical things

If you ever find such a street, would you be interested in a new neigbour?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It really does make me laugh when people move near any obvious source of noise pollution (that might be a level crossing, airport, racing circuit e.t.c) and then complaint constantly about their suffering. I'm sorry, but you knew that before you moved out of choice!

One thing when you move home is for the solicitors acting for you to research any such matters, as this could make a difference to you when you are made aware of the situation in deciding to go ahead with the purchase. This is what you pay the solicitors for.

 

[tempests1]

As someone who grew up within quarter a mile of a pedestrian crossing I didn’t mind in the slightest hearing the sound of trains blowing their horns, during most of the day there were four trains a day each way. If I heard the horn I would race upstairs to watch the train go by. It’s like anything else when you buy a property you weigh up the pros and cons If you move next to a rail line you know that there will be some noise, you will meet sad people like myself that would see it as a selling point I would rather live next to a railway line than a busy road the noise is much more pleasing to the ear. I believe noise abatement orders have mutated into something ridiculous they are good if you live next door to the noisy neighbours from hell. I have a friend who lived next door to a nocturnal alcoholic/drug user and had to put up with her loud music, moving of furniture/shouting/screaming and other unmentionable things for a whole ten months before the district council took any proper action.

 

[Oswyntail]

...
Once again the onus is on the car driver to avoid accidents NOT the pedestrian!

Not so, I think it has been recognised for some time that there is a cocooning effect on drivers from being fully enclosed in their car, and this cuts them off from other road users. We react to signs as if they were part of the car's controls and information. Removal of signs has been shown to encourage drivers to be more aware of what is going on around them. This does not remove the onus from pedestrians, simply encourage drivers to be more aware.

 

[jon0844]

Thing is, you're never quite sure which car is driven by a lunatic, which by someone who just can't admit that their sight is going, which by someone on their mobile phone. Personally, I'd have Armco barriers along the side of every street and only cross by footbridge if I had the choice, I don't trust drivers at all.

I suspect the real risk to pedestrians along that new road will be from cyclists.

I'm fully aware of the fact that in Holland lots more people cycle, but they usually ring their bells to warn you - and people (knowing there are lots of cyclists, no doubt being cyclists themselves) move away without any major fuss.

In London, I can see it being carnage as attitudes are somewhat different. That said, it's a better part of town than, say, putting such a road design along Tottenham High Road! It may well work there, and for the money I bloody well hope it does!