What is (or was) a van train?

[Harlesden]

http://www.davesrailpics.bravehost.com/grimsbytown/grimsbytown70.htm
the fifth picture down. Is it simply an empty stock movement?

 

[Freightmaster]

http://www.davesrailpics.bravehost.com/grimsbytown/grimsbytown70.htm
the fifth picture down. Is it simply an empty stock movement?

Non passenger carrying coaching stock (NPCCS) were commonly refered
to as vans in those days "newspaper vans" "mail vans" etc, even though
a van is really more like this: http://www.cvr-extra.wanadoo.co.uk/MPD_299.jpg

MARK

 

[John Webb]

"Van" can also be a contraction of "Guard's Van" - there were various Full Brake coaches used to house the guard and passengers' luggage on some trains rather than a coach with part passenger seating and part guard/luggage accomodation.
The Full Brakes were also used to form parcel and newspaper trains where the goods carrying capacity was needed as well as the ability to run at passenger train speeds.
There were also 'GUVs' - General Utility Vans - which were bogie-fitted and also used in such trains.

 

[Hydro]

We have generator vans, conversions of Mk.1 full brakes.

 

[jopsuk]

on the Mrk 3 and mrk 4 push-pull trains, the "V" in "DVT" stands for "Van" doesn't it? As in "Driving Van Trailer". They're probably the closest thing in modern day-to-day operation to old "full brake" van.

 

[sprinterguy]

on the Mrk 3 and mrk 4 push-pull trains, the "V" in "DVT" stands for "Van" doesn't it? As in "Driving Van Trailer". They're probably the closest thing in modern day-to-day operation to old "full brake" van.

It certainly does.

On the West Coast, the mark 3 DVTs directly replaced mark 1 BG vehicles that had previously been used in the West Coast mark 3 rakes, so it is clear that they perform a very similar function, with the added bonus of having a driving cab as well.

 

[4SRKT]

Van trains were everywhere until the 1980s on Newspaper, mail and parcel services. Places like Red Bank in Manchester were simply full of them for the various newspaper contracts. This was wrecked by the rail unions' ill advised support for the printers' strike against News International, allowing TNT to muscle in on the traffic. Like the unions, back then we couldn't have imagined a world where the railways did not deliver the newspapers, and in which van trains were everywhere, and most remote local stations would see a bundle of newspapers thrown out onto the platform along with the mail. Working in the modern parcel industry I am convinced that the Post Town names in much of remote Scotland are derived from the name of the station where the mail was dropped, even if that is not central to the postcode concerned or even the biggest village in it.

Bradford Forster Square for decades saw multiple van trains a night leaving for destinations all over the country, full of parcels from Grattan and Empire Stores. When I worked at Grattan I used to wonder why the loading bays on a building built as recently as the 1960s were so short, and the answer given was the only things that used them were 20' railway drays pulling the work (pre-sorted into BRUTEs) down the hill to Forster Square. This went on until Grattan started to develop its own parcel delivery network in the early '80s.

Most mail trains were a combination of vans (BGs and GUVs), TPO vehicles (with a letter box in the side through which first class post would be directly injected into the Royal Mail system), and a single SK or BSK providing limited passenger accomodation for those who wanted to use it. Hard to believe that this incredibly civilised way of things was still going on into my adult life really.

 

[ObservationCar]

I wish it was a standard feature of modern trains to have some extra space, for at least 6 bikes, extra luggage, push chairs etc... It would be great to have an extra half coach on some of the Highland Trains to allow for such things aswell as taking vital goods to Kyle and Caithness/Sutherland. Even up until 1998, papers were conveyed on the morning 156 from Inverness to Lairg to be transferred onto the many Postbusses which left for several different destinations

"Driving Van Trailer".

Is he Dutch? Bit like that other Dutch guy Hertz van Rental! :roll: i'll get my coat

 

[LE Greys]

I wish it was a standard feature of modern trains to have some extra space, for at least 6 bikes, extra luggage, push chairs etc... It would be great to have an extra half coach on some of the Highland Trains to allow for such things aswell as taking vital goods to Kyle and Caithness/Sutherland. Even up until 1998, papers were conveyed on the morning 156 from Inverness to Lairg to be transferred onto the many Postbusses which left for several different destinations

That's a sensible idea. Even if it's just a small space behind one of the cabs, big enough for a few bikes and a seat. One of the few good things about the 450s is that they have a bit of space for bikes and luggage in one vehicle.

Is he Dutch? Bit like that other Dutch guy Hertz van Rental! :roll: i'll get my coat

There's a Vincent Van Hire in Stevenage - although Vincent motorbikes used to be made there as well.

 

[Hydro]

That's a sensible idea. Even if it's just a small space behind one of the cabs, big enough for a few bikes and a seat. One of the few good things about the 450s is that they have a bit of space for bikes and luggage in one vehicle.

Most older trains, even suburban ones, had bags of space in the guards brake van for bikes, parcels, luggage, you name it. I've got a Mk.2 half brake in the rake I'm working at the moment, ex-FGW Night Riviera, and you should see the space in it. Disabled loo, standard seating area, guards office and still enough room to make an echo when talking in the van area.

 

[jopsuk]

I wish it was a standard feature of modern trains to have some extra space, for at least 6 bikes, extra luggage, push chairs etc... It would be great to have an extra half coach on some of the Highland Trains to allow for such things aswell as taking vital goods to Kyle and Caithness/Sutherland. Even up until 1998, papers were conveyed on the morning 156 from Inverness to Lairg to be transferred onto the many Postbusses which left for several different destinations

most 156s still have the compartment don't they? Some 317s (and possibly 321s?) still have a compartment at one end, now missing the lockable door, that has tip-up bench seats.

On the more rural lines, where platform length often isn't that much of a problem (except where most of the old longer platform has been allowed to disintegrate) there wouldn't be that much of a problem surely if units were a bit longer with more non-passenger carrying space?

 

[LE Greys]

Most older trains, even suburban ones, had bags of space in the guards brake van for bikes, parcels, luggage, you name it. I've got a Mk.2 half brake in the rake I'm working at the moment, ex-FGW Night Riviera, and you should see the space in it. Disabled loo, standard seating area, guards office and still enough room to make an echo when talking in the van area.

I know. I used to go to college by 5-WES at one point, and they managed to cram the buffet, the van and the guard's office and quite a few standard seats into the motorcoach, plus the old "snug" smoking area. The old 3-CIGs on the Lymington branch did fairly well, too. Tons of room for the hordes of off-road cyclists who like pedalling all over the New Forest. It's not so good when a 158 ends up on the branch now.