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Can a genuine computer expert answer this question please?

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Harlesden

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I have always been led to believe that there in no legal use for torrents - for the simple reason if the content being downloaded for free was legitimately available for free, it would be on an ordinary website.
People downloading software, games and movies for free are to my mind as dishonest as people riding ticket less on a train with no intention of buying a ticket.
People downloading content for free that should legitimately be purchased seem totally unaware of the basics of economics insofar as you need to SELL your existing item to get the money to create the next item.
In the case of teens stealing music from the Internet, the person/group they claim to admire is/are being deprived of royalties to which they are legitimately entitled and are a legitimate part of their earnings.
 
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Hydro

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Torrenting is just a method of delivery. It's basically taking lots of little bits of data of the same file from multiple sources (the initial uploader and subsequent downloaders) rather than the whole file from one source. That's all it is. The actual data can be anything, legal/illegal/open source/copyrighted/whatever. There are lots of legal uses for torrent file sharing. Open source software sharing and game modification distribution spring to mind.
 

Yew

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Don't forget that small developers might not be able to afford lots of server space for their products, so torrents might be a better choice
 

Hydro

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Or indeed bandwidth for lots of people going to one source. Torrents are good in that the more people who download and seed, then generally the download becomes faster and more reliable as it is spread over multiple sources.
 

90019

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I have always been led to believe that there in no legal use for torrents - for the simple reason if the content being downloaded for free was legitimately available for free, it would be on an ordinary website.

You've been led to believe wrong - whoever has been telling you this is talking crap.

Yes, some torrented files will be illegal, but you can't go and use that as logic to say that torrenting can't be used in a legal way.
Would you say that there is no legal use for CDs, because some of them will have illegal content on them?
 

starrymarkb

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When Revision3 started out they used BitTorrent as a distribution system for their original content. A half hour show in HD was about 700MB, so they used BitTorrent to lighten the load on their servers (until they could afford to stream). Despite everything on their BitTorrent server being content they had the rights to distribute, they still were DDoS attacked by the movie industry as "sharing large amounts of video must be piracy"

Other legal services that use similar systems include Spotify (music is streamed both from the central server and from other users) & World of Warcraft (for Game Patches). Perfect World Entertainment would also distribute games by BitTorrent (using the Free to Play Model)
 
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chris89

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Torrenting is just a method of delivery. It's basically taking lots of little bits of data of the same file from multiple sources (the initial uploader and subsequent downloaders) rather than the whole file from one source. That's all it is. The actual data can be anything, legal/illegal/open source/copyrighted/whatever. There are lots of legal uses for torrent file sharing. Open source software sharing and game modification distribution spring to mind.

Can't really extend onto that description for torrets as it is a very good one.

As posted in the other thread that is linked here

http://ultrapack.il2war.com/index.php/topic,4029.0.html

Used that torrent rather recently, as no one would want to download multiple gb mod in a single go from an website and is an easier method to distubite then pay for expenisve download severs.

Also i would Recommend that the OP would tell the person that informed them about Torrents is completely wrong.

Yes Illegal downloads are a problem and they always will be so. Many possible ways to try and cut the figures but most of them would never buy anything to begin with in the first place.

But at least in games a way to try to cut Piracy is by not increasing the ammount of incredibly restricitve DRM, which Ubisoft and some others think is the way forward.

But they put real buyers at a greater loss then pirates. Some companies do have intresting and quite funny ways to disrupt pirated verisons though.

On that terms the most Pirated game last year was the 'biggest' Selling title being Call of Duty 8. Modern Warfare 3.

Chris
 

WelshBluebird

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1 - You have already asked this and been given several replies, so I don't see why you need a new thread on it.

2 - As others have said, torrents can have legal and illegal uses. It is just a method of distribution. It says nothing about what the content actually is.

3 - I think you are a little bit short sighted too. Some bands have made it big simply because of file sharing and putting their music out for free (arctic monkeys for example). When you are a very small band - your problem is not selling your music. It is getting yourself noticed. Getting people to listen to you. File sharing and putting your music out for free is a great way of doing that.

4 - The common line of "one pirated copy means one less sale" is just a lie basically.
 

table38

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Some of us are old enough to remember the same argument about taping stuff off the radio, and a call for a tax on C60/C90 tapes.

Some of us even remember C75 tapes which were conveniently just long enough to fit a whole LP on :)
 

Badger

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I run a game making website, and since Megaupload has gone down we have lost a hell of a lot of old games which people made (themselves, legally, owning full rights to). When assumptions are made about the content, when really like Megaupload torrenting is just a method of distributing files, legitimate users are hurt too.

Torrenting is legal, and used by a lot of big corporations. It's useful and sometimes necessary. To brand everyone with bittorrent on their PC in the same gang would be wrong.
 

DaveNewcastle

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The correct distinction to be made in this debate is the distinction between the content and the medium.
Some of us are old enough to remember the same argument about taping stuff off the radio, and a call for a tax on C60/C90 tapes.

Some of us even remember C75 tapes which were conveniently just long enough to fit a whole LP on :)
and before that, people who didn't like the critical or heretical views in printed material decided to smash these new printing presses. Mistaking content with the means of distribution.

To be quite clear, the Rights protected by Copyright include the right of the creator of an original work to give it away for free, and any measures to restrict distribution must accommodate that right. As a trivial example, we can remember that the music to "Happy Birthday" is still within the term of its Copyright, but there is no claim by the Rights owners for revenue from its performance, so it may be performed without payment of a Royalty. (There are royalties collected from the recording and copying of recordings of "Happy Birthday" and the Rights owners will be credited at the end of any film which includes the song.). This is because the Rights owners choose not to claim their Rights, it has nothing to do with how or where it may be performed, nor the medium though which it is copied, distributed sold or broadcast.
Any retrospective measure to 'plug the gap' such as imposing a levy on blank cassette tape, CDRs or downlod sites will always fail in its intentions when tested against examples of material which is still within its terms of Copyright but which the owners wish to disseminate for free (talking books and recordings of one's friends and family being other popular examples).

Having made that distinction and agreed that the concern is one of Intellectual Property Rights (IP) and not one of any specific medium of supply, then the next port of call should be to an IP Lawyer and not to a Computer Expert!
The Music and Film Industry bodies representing the rights owners have been very active in the last few years, and quite rightly too; the most recent report on the matter was the Hargreaves Report which, although not universally accepted, studied the main models of revenue earning capability which the industries could adopt and which sustain the revenue earning capacity of IP rights holders.

Acknowledging the massive contribution that the Creative Industries make to the UK economy, the matter of IP Rights is also of interest to the Government and you'll easily find debates and papers published on the matter exercising the minds of these industries' representative bodies as well as DCMS.

Frankly, the biggest areas of concern are not Torrents but the inconsistency in Rights legislation around the world. We can find products being copied and sold from one territory into another where the Royalty Collection mechanisms are not in place to collect and distribute the fees due to the original creators and their producers.
 
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ralphchadkirk

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Torrenting is just a method of delivery, like straight downloading or the postal service. It's completely legal. It's the illegal content which is the problem, not the method of delivery.


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SS4

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Torrenting is a delivery method (in the same way the postman is). I believe iPlayer uses P2P which is not far from bittorrent.

Indeed, if I have some bandwidth to spare I seed a couple of linux distros
 

Crossover

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Torrenting is a delivery method (in the same way the postman is). I believe iPlayer uses P2P which is not far from bittorrent.

I believe you are correct with this. Someone else mentioned Spotify which indeed is similar (Spotify downloads to your PC in a proprietary file format which can't be read with anything other than Spotify IIRC) and I suspect there are a lot of high bandwidth sites that do something similar.

I can understand what was said about WoW as well as I have heard from numerous friends who play the game that the updates are huge!
 

sprite

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If torrents are illegal, by the same standard cars should be too.
Torrents are a vehicle for content delivery, some of it legal and some is not.
Cars can be used to deliever "legal content", a pizza, or they can be used to transport illegal drugs.

Here is a list from another thread that I produced quickly of some legal content delivered via torrents.

Here is a list I made in 5 minutes.
  • Ubuntu
  • LibreOffice [NOTE: there is a tick box that says "Download using BitTorrent".]
  • Katawa Shoujo
  • Fedora
  • Pioneer One [NOTE: This page does not contain a download link to a .torrent file, however using the external links at the bottom one can be found easily.]

So we have here a collection of operating systems, office software, a visual novel/game and a web series. All found within 5 minutes of searching, all totally legal to download and distribute using a bittorrent platform.
 

Donny Dave

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I can understand what was said about WoW as well as I have heard from numerous friends who play the game that the updates are huge!

Updates can vary, from patches that are less than ~10Mb (painly bug fixes these) to several hundred Mb (usually minor content patches).

However, the 3.3.x to 4.0.1 patch was roughly 16Gb due to most of the content (old world) being completely re-made, as well as other data (2 new playable races, updated skills and talent trees and a new profession).

Now imagine 12 million people downloading that patch from the WoW servers ....
 

SS4

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Updates can vary, from patches that are less than ~10Mb (painly bug fixes these) to several hundred Mb (usually minor content patches).

However, the 3.3.x to 4.0.1 patch was roughly 16Gb due to most of the content (old world) being completely re-made, as well as other data (2 new playable races, updated skills and talent trees and a new profession).

Now imagine 12 million people downloading that patch from the WoW servers ....

16 * 12*10^6 = (10+6)(10+2)*10^6 = (100 + 20 + 60 + 8)*10^6 = 188*10^6 or 188,000,000 GB = 188PB

Can anyone tell I'm bored :oops:
 

Crossover

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I can understand what was said about WoW as well as I have heard from numerous friends who play the game that the updates are huge!

Updates can vary, from patches that are less than ~10Mb (painly bug fixes these) to several hundred Mb (usually minor content patches).

However, the 3.3.x to 4.0.1 patch was roughly 16Gb due to most of the content (old world) being completely re-made, as well as other data (2 new playable races, updated skills and talent trees and a new profession).

Now imagine 12 million people downloading that patch from the WoW servers ....

Yeah, I think it was that update that a few of my uni friends were pretty much pining over...especially as even once downloaded and installed, the servers couldn't handle all the simultaneous login requests!!!
 
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