New station west of Cardiff

[ValleyLines142]

Hi guys,

I live about 2 miles west of Cardiff Central on the South Wales Main Line and over the years there have been plans to build a station right outside my house, which would be excellent for me! The next stop west of Cardiff is Pontyclun, about twelve miles away, but even that is an hourly stopper, the next official main line is effectively Bridgend. Currently there is no service for all areas in between. The Ely and St Fagan's area of Cardiff I feel could definitely benefit from a station, as currently Waun-Gron Park on the City Line is the nearest station which only has a half-hourly service and no service on a Sunday! Can anyone confirm whether a new station is being considered?

Thanks

 

[The Planner]

Not heard anything myself.

 

[4SRKT]

I've often been surprised by such a long gap between stations in an urbanised area. There are lots of houses in various different Elys to the west of Cardiff where a station surely would do good business. I'm equally surprised that a town like Pontyclun has only an hourly service: I was recently on the 18:12 Cardiff > Maesteg which had just about every seat occupied leaving Cardiff, but about 1/3 of the pax left at Pontyclun. By the time I bailed at Pencoed there were no more than a couple of dozen on. At least the 2-hourly Swansea local could call additionally at Pontyclun.

 

[Oswyntail]

Pontyclun has a huge catchment area from both north and south, and I am surprised the service is so infrequent. Two possibilities: the proximity of the motorway makes the planners think demand might not be there; the line is approaching capacity usage and extra trains/stops could not be accommodated. Either way seems quite short-sighted. IMHO there could even be a case for Inter-City stops there.

 

[Flamingo]

IMHO there could even be a case for Inter-City stops there.

Why not? We stop every 10 minutes the rest of the way from Carmarthen :roll:

ATW use FGW to carry the bulk of passengers on the line between Newport and Swansea, including commuter services (and don't start me about Sundays), despite taking the lions share of the revenue from this line.

There is actually a case for Inter-City services being just that - inter CITY, and calling at Cardiff and Swansea only, change at Cardiff for connections to the other stations. That would not only provide a faster service for the main population hubs to London, which is our raison d'etre, but also be a more efficient and greener use of the trains, which are designed for getting to speed and cruising, not stopping and then accelerating every ten minutes.

When we are coming out of London, we don't stop at all the stations between Reading and Paddington, and they would have a larger catchment area than any of the South Wales towns.

 

[paulravuslante]

I've often been surprised by such a long gap between stations in an urbanised area. There are lots of houses in various different Elys to the west of Cardiff where a station surely would do good business. I'm equally surprised that a town like Pontyclun has only an hourly service: I was recently on the 18:12 Cardiff > Maesteg which had just about every seat occupied leaving Cardiff, but about 1/3 of the pax left at Pontyclun. By the time I bailed at Pencoed there were no more than a couple of dozen on. At least the 2-hourly Swansea local could call additionally at Pontyclun.

That's weird. I remember that one of the trains bound for Swansea used to call at Pontyclun and Pencoed in the evening peak. Wonder when that was withdrawn. Must have been either the introduction of the standard pattern timetable or when Llanharan opened.

As regards St Fagans, this page highlights a feasibility study being carried out by Cardiff Council back in 2000 and politicians have talked about it since but not much has been done to make it a reality, it would seem.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Why not? We stop every 10 minutes the rest of the way from Carmarthen :roll:

ATW use FGW to carry the bulk of passengers on the line between Newport and Swansea, including commuter services (and don't start me about Sundays), despite taking the lions share of the revenue from this line.

There is actually a case for Inter-City services being just that - inter CITY, and calling at Cardiff and Swansea only, change at Cardiff for connections to the other stations. That would not only provide a faster service for the main population hubs to London, which is our raison d'etre, but also be a more efficient and greener use of the trains, which are designed for getting to speed and cruising, not stopping and then accelerating every ten minutes.

When we are coming out of London, we don't stop at all the stations between Reading and Paddington, and they would have a larger catchment area than any of the South Wales towns.

Nice idea but with only two running lines for the majority of the route between Cardiff and Swansea and there being a mix of stopping services and freight using the same lines, surely a non-stop service is going to catch up with a slower train. So you may as well stop anyway.

And why shouldn't FGW carry the bulk of passengers when you have more seats than ATW units?

 

[Gwenllian2001]

That's weird. I remember that one of the trains bound for Swansea used to call at Pontyclun and Pencoed in the evening peak. Wonder when that was withdrawn. Must have been either the introduction of the standard pattern timetable or when Llanharan opened.

Yes, the standard pattern timetable was the culprit. It may be hard to believe, for younger subscribers, but Pontyclun had no station at all until the Maesteg line reopened to passengers. The previous station on the site (Llantrisant) was closed in 1964 along with Ely; St Fagans; Peterston; Llanharan and Pencoed. There have been several studies concerning St Fagans but, so far, nothing has been done. The half hourly service, when introduced, to Maesteg will effectively double the number of trains calling at Pontyclun and there is to be a new station at Bracla, between Bridgend and Pencoed. I doubt that Peterston could support a station, St Fagans and Ely might but only if electrified, to take advantage of the superior acceleration.

Meic

 

[Flamingo]

Nice idea but with only two running lines for the majority of the route between Cardiff and Swansea and there being a mix of stopping services and freight using the same lines, surely a non-stop service is going to catch up with a slower train. So you may as well stop anyway.

And why shouldn't FGW carry the bulk of passengers when you have more seats than ATW units?

Not a problem with them carrying the bulk of the passengers, but then why do ATW get the bulk of the revenue?

Also, when four years ago FGW dropped a train from Cardiff to Swansea at the evening peak (15.15 off Pad, 17.20 off Cardiff), ATW whinged (and indeed STILL blame it for overcrowding on the evening trains, I heard it being said by an ATW guard a few months ago to someone complaining), but did nothing about replacing it with another service in the same (now vacant) pathway.

Once FGW comes through the Severn Tunnel, we become a local train service for South Wales and all the issues and problems associated with that. Intercity 125's are not suited to that sort of working, from a size and engineering point of view, and this, in part, contributes to the issues around ticket-less travel and anti-social behaviour on these trains in South Wales, but the company that has responsibility for the areas that can help reduce these issues has absolutely NO motivation or incentive to do so. Indeed, it's recent actions in reducing manning at Bridgend, Carmarthen (and Hereford) could be seen as contributing to the problem. There are no manned stations between Cardiff and Swansea after 8-10 pm (depending on who is around at Bridgend) until 6am. That gives precious little back-up to on-train staff, and does not offer much reassurance to the travelling public when the usual spread of antisocial drunks are roaming about.

 

[ValleyLines142]

I've often been surprised by such a long gap between stations in an urbanised area. There are lots of houses in various different Elys to the west of Cardiff where a station surely would do good business. I'm equally surprised that a town like Pontyclun has only an hourly service: I was recently on the 18:12 Cardiff > Maesteg which had just about every seat occupied leaving Cardiff, but about 1/3 of the pax left at Pontyclun. By the time I bailed at Pencoed there were no more than a couple of dozen on. At least the 2-hourly Swansea local could call additionally at Pontyclun.

It's true. A lot of Pontyclun services are very busy. I think all three stations between Cardiff and Bridgend should benefit from at least a half hourly service.

Pontyclun has a huge catchment area from both north and south, and I am surprised the service is so infrequent. Two possibilities: the proximity of the motorway makes the planners think demand might not be there; the line is approaching capacity usage and extra trains/stops could not be accommodated. Either way seems quite short-sighted. IMHO there could even be a case for Inter-City stops there.

It's not so bad in the morning, because there are a few extra services. There did used to be the 0616 Carmarthen to Cardiff, which would get into Cardiff at 0833 and call at Pontyclun at 0820ish, but this has somewhat gone all of a sudden. The 0835 Cardiff to Ebbw Vale has been extended to start back from Bridgend at 0808, and also the 0646 from Maesteg goes through to Ebbw Vale too. There are also two morning Manchester services which call at Pontyclun. It's good in the morning but terrible in the night, there's the 1618, 1718 and 1812 services, they're all hourly, and the 1718 is the 1238 from Maesteg and although booked for a three-car 175 is extremely busy. I think the 1739 to Milford Haven could make a stop at the three stations but that's only a 2-car 175 and is rammed to the rafters (don't even get me started on that!). The 1640 Ebbw Vale to Cardiff used to go through to Swansea leaving Cardiff at 1738, albeit not calling at the three stations but that's now been stopped. There is now an 1804 stopper to Swansea in place of what is now the 1739 departing twenty-five minutes early but even that's straight through to Bridgend. They should bring back the extension and call at all stations. And what would help is if FGW's 1515 London to Cardiff services extended to Swansea, I have absolutely no idea in this world as to why it was cut. There certainly needs to be an increase in services west of Cardiff. Compared to the east, which almost has a train calling at Newport every 15 minutes, it's diabolical.

 

[Gwenllian2001]

There certainly needs to be an increase in services west of Cardiff. Compared to the east, which almost has a train calling at Newport every 15 minutes, it's diabolical.

I couldn't agree more. Excluding the Llynfi Valley, served by Maesteg trains, there are approximately 250,000 people living in the Pontyclun, Bridgend, Port Talbot, Neath, Briton Ferry and lower Swansea Valley all 'served' by the South Wales Main Line. The service is totally inadequate and, in my opinion, needs a complete overhaul.

Meic

 

[ValleyLines142]

I couldn't agree more. Excluding the Llynfi Valley, served by Maesteg trains, there are approximately 250,000 people living in the Pontyclun, Bridgend, Port Talbot, Neath, Briton Ferry and lower Swansea Valley all 'served' by the South Wales Main Line. The service is totally inadequate and, in my opinion, needs a complete overhaul.

Indeed so. From 1700, there are the following trains eastbound from Cardiff, all of which call at Newport:

1700 to Taunton
1712 to Cheltenham
1721 to Holyhead
1725 to London
1730 to Portsmouth
1745 to Nottingham
1750 to Manchester
1755 to London

Westbound, there is only:

1704 to Tenby
1718 to Maesteg
1739 to Milford Haven
1748 to Swansea (FGW 1545 from London)
1804 to Swansea (ATW stopper)
- of which only the 1718 calls at Pontyclun, Llanharan and Pencoed.

That, is truly atrocious.

 

[Flamingo]

Westbound, there is only:

1704 to Tenby
1718 to Maesteg
1739 to Milford Haven
1748 to Swansea (FGW 1545 from London)
1804 to Swansea (ATW stopper)
- of which only the 1718 calls at Pontyclun, Llanharan and Pencoed.

That, is truly atrocious.

Also, to add into the equation, they are all one, two, or at most three cars, with the exception of the HST. So, if can happen, the HST (400 seats STD, 100 1st) is held up on it's run, then there are serious capacity issues. I have brought a late-running HST from London in, arriving full in Cardiff at 1720, to be told you're terminating here, we need the train for a return journey to London (our priority), tell the 400+ people on-board to get on the 1739 (two car 150!).

It is common to hear platform staff in Cardiff pleading over the PA for passengers not to get on the 1739 if going to BGN, PTA, NTH or SWA and wait for the HST, leaving the Milford for West Wales passengers. As a rule, they are ignored, it fills up anyway.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Also, to add into the equation, they are all one, two, or at most three cars, with the exception of the HST. So, if can happen, the HST (400 seats STD, 100 1st) is held up on it's run, then there are serious capacity issues. I have brought a late-running HST from London in, arriving full in Cardiff at 1720, to be told you're terminating here, we need the train for a return journey to London (our priority), tell the 400+ people on-board to get on the 1739 (two car 150!).

It's really bad actually, so so bad. And is the 1739 to Milford Haven now a 150 and not a 175?

 

[Flamingo]

It depends, usually seems to be a 175, but I know on the evening that it happened to me it was a 150!

 

[ValleyLines142]

It depends, usually seems to be a 175, but I know on the evening that it happened to me it was a 150!

How very unfortunate. A little extreme but I would have to kill myself if a 150 turned up on the journey. A crowded 175 is bad enough. And 175s are wonderful!

 

[Flamingo]

I must admit, I can tell a HST from everything else, after that, I struggle!

 

[anthony263]

I do agree that Pontyclun deserves a much better service in fact I wouldnt mind seing the branch to Beddau being re-opened perhaps worked by a larger version of the Parry people mover.

As for St Fagans ask any bus driver who has driven service's 32/320 Cardiff - St Fagans - Talbot green which are worked by Optare solo's and they will tell you some services can become so overcrowded people are turned away.

I know Cardiff City Council are looking at running a crosscity bendybus service to/from St Fagans similar to the Swansea Metro FTR service which should improve the situation although I wouldnt mind a station being built there or at Ely.


Another station that should be opened in Cardiff is at St Mellons although last I heard Network rail rejected it.

The 17:39 ATW service from Cardiff to Milford Haven is terrible even when its a 3 carriage 175 and I know there have been a lot of complaints from passengers who are traveling on the 17:39 to Claberston Road to change for the shuttle to Fishguard Harbour, I have told people that there is a hst following about 8-9 minutes behind and they still wont wait.

 

[ValleyLines142]

I do agree that Pontyclun deserves a much better service in fact I wouldnt mind seing the branch to Beddau being re-opened perhaps worked by a larger version of the Parry people mover.

As for St Fagans ask any bus driver who has driven service's 32/320 Cardiff - St Fagans - Talbot green which are worked by Optare solo's and they will tell you some services can become so overcrowded people are turned away.

I know Cardiff City Council are looking at running a crosscity bendybus service to/from St Fagans similar to the Swansea Metro FTR service which should improve the situation although I wouldnt mind a station being built there or at Ely.


Another station that should be opened in Cardiff is at St Mellons although last I heard Network rail rejected it.

I agree with every point made there.

 

[Greenback]

Also, to add into the equation, they are all one, two, or at most three cars, with the exception of the HST. So, if can happen, the HST (400 seats STD, 100 1st) is held up on it's run, then there are serious capacity issues. I have brought a late-running HST from London in, arriving full in Cardiff at 1720, to be told you're terminating here, we need the train for a return journey to London (our priority), tell the 400+ people on-board to get on the 1739 (two car 150!).

It is common to hear platform staff in Cardiff pleading over the PA for passengers not to get on the 1739 if going to BGN, PTA, NTH or SWA and wait for the HST, leaving the Milford for West Wales passengers. As a rule, they are ignored, it fills up anyway.

It is common, and as we have seen from other threads, most peopel realise that the 175's do not have the capacity or flexibility for the Manchester to West Wales services. If there were four or even five car units on this run then the pressure on FGW services would be reduced.

Even when the HST's left Cardiff before the ATW trains, people still got on the latter just because happened to be at the platform with an indicator stating Bridgend. Staff still had to tell people there was an earlier service for Bridgend to try and get them off so that people for West Wales could get on. So changing the timetable again wouldn't be much use!

The 17:39 ATW service from Cardiff to Milford Haven is terrible even when its a 3 carriage 175 and I know there have been a lot of complaints from passengers who are traveling on the 17:39 to Claberston Road to change for the shuttle to Fishguard Harbour, I have told people that there is a hst following about 8-9 minutes behind and they still wont wait.

In my experience, all the westbound ATW trains out of Cardiff in the late afternoon can be very busy. I hardly ever fail to get a seat, due to arriving on the platform early and knowing roughly where to stand for the doors! Flamingo is right that the cancellation of one HST can have a huge effect, as it's 8 carriages provide most of the capacity between Cardiff and Swansea.

 

[Flamingo]

Another way of looking at it is that, although the Welsh Assembly give a lot of money to ATW for providing train services in Wales, the bulk of the services on the commuter line through the major population centres along the M4 corridor are provided by a company that has it's main focus in providing services into London, and views Wales (especially the stretch after Cardiff) as a backwater where services can be cancelled with no impact on it's main operation.

Hardly ideal, is it?

 

[ValleyLines142]

The 17:39 ATW service from Cardiff to Milford Haven is terrible even when its a 3 carriage 175 and I know there have been a lot of complaints from passengers who are traveling on the 17:39 to Claberston Road to change for the shuttle to Fishguard Harbour, I have told people that there is a hst following about 8-9 minutes behind and they still wont wait.

Yes but the HST is no good for people travelling to Fishguard as it only goes to Swansea.

 

[Greenback]

Another way of looking at it is that, although the Welsh Assembly give a lot of money to ATW for providing train services in Wales, the bulk of the services on the commuter line through the major population centres along the M4 corridor are provided by a company that has it's main focus in providing services into London, and views Wales (especially the stretch after Cardiff) as a backwater where services can be cancelled with no impact on it's main operation.

Hardly ideal, is it?

No, it isn't - the WG really needs to up its game when it comes to Welsh railways.

 

[anthony263]

No, it isn't - the WG really needs to up its game when it comes to Welsh railways.

And you can include the bus services in wales as well although there have been some sucess stories namely some of the trawscambria routes now being operated commercially with brand new vehicles (First Cymru please note new vehicles not knockoffs from Bristol/London)

Certainly I agree the WG need to sort out the rail services in Wales, take the Cardiff - North wales routre in my opinion either keep just the 2 hourly stopping service or withdrawn them and have 2 express trains in each direction per day such as from Cardiff to Holyhead at 05:20 & 17:20 and similar times comming back.

I hope the WG will try to get some of the class 158's or 170's which should become available from soctrail in 2015 after electrification, I know the class 170's are not ideal but they are a good mesure until more routes in wales can be wired although I wouldnt mind a trip on a class 170 over the heart of wales line which could certainly do with an extra couple of trains per day.

 

[tbtc]

Another way of looking at it is that, although the Welsh Assembly give a lot of money to ATW for providing train services in Wales, the bulk of the services on the commuter line through the major population centres along the M4 corridor are provided by a company that has it's main focus in providing services into London, and views Wales (especially the stretch after Cardiff) as a backwater where services can be cancelled with no impact on it's main operation.

Hardly ideal, is it?

This is the problem - for all the money spent on improving Holyhead - Cardiff services, the Cambrian route and a new service to Fishguard in recent times, there's not been any real improvement on the core service linking the three biggest places in Wales.

The rural services are important, but it's strange that there's not the same importance attached to the busy route from Newport to Swansea via the capital.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

As for St Fagans ask any bus driver who has driven service's 32/320 Cardiff - St Fagans - Talbot green which are worked by Optare solo's and they will tell you some services can become so overcrowded people are turned away

A busy minibus route suggests to me that the way forward is to run full sized single deckers, not that this area justifies a train station.

 

[anthony263]

This is the problem - for all the money spent on improving Holyhead - Cardiff services, the Cambrian route and a new service to Fishguard in recent times, there's not been any real improvement on the core service linking the three biggest places in Wales.

The rural services are important, but it's strange that there's not the same importance attached to the busy route from Newport to Swansea via the capital.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


A busy minibus route suggests to me that the way forward is to run full sized single deckers, not that this area justifies a train station.

We tried running dennis darts on service 32 but even they struggled and you have no chance fitting a double decker down there although there is justification to run them especially during the summer time.

 

[4SRKT]

Yes but the HST is no good for people travelling to Fishguard as it only goes to Swansea.

I think he meant that people who didn't need to go beyond Swansea could/should use the tram, leaving the 17:39 with space for those travelling to West Wales.

I watched the 17:39 go out rammed as a 2-car 175 a couple of weeks ago and couldn't believe that people weren't prepared to wait for the following HST. It's not as though Bridgend is just a couple of minutes' ride away and therefore not too bad to stand up for.

I was amused to hear the announcer call out that passengers for Fishguard should change at Clarbeston Road, and then later in the same announcement reel off a list of request stops, one of which was Clarbeston Road! Possibly says everything we need to know about the viability of the new Fishguard service.

 

[ValleyLines142]

I think he meant that people who didn't need to go beyond Swansea could/should use the tram, leaving the 17:39 with space for those travelling to West Wales.

I watched the 17:39 go out rammed as a 2-car 175 a couple of weeks ago and couldn't believe that people weren't prepared to wait for the following HST. It's not as though Bridgend is just a couple of minutes' ride away and therefore not too bad to stand up for.

I was amused to hear the announcer call out that passengers for Fishguard should change at Clarbeston Road, and then later in the same announcement reel off a list of request stops, one of which was Clarbeston Road! Possibly says everything we need to know about the viability of the new Fishguard service.

Ah right.

The 1739 is booked for a 2-car 175 anyway I think, certainly needs to be a three-car from Cardiff, but then it leaves Manchester at 1430 which is probably dead quiet then, hence the 2-car!

Yes, and apparently there's also not a ferry from Fishguard at that time anyway according to someone who said on here!

 

[Eire Sprinter]

Re: St Fagans: I think a station here is certainly worth exploring as the Welsh National Museum is a popular attraction and would boost numbers.

From what I remember when I visited a decade or so ago the bus journey took a while.

In a 2010 Wales Online thread I read something about there being a disused/ dismantled (?) spur line which would lend the possibility of a St. Fagans station being on this spur or on the mainline.

Perhaps any station here could have an "olde worlde" feel to it (in line with the ethos of the national museum) but would also need to be functional in modern day terms.

Re Fishguard:

The only ex Fishguard sailings are now at 02:45 and 14:30 (Stena Europe Superferry). I've heard however that a few people were travelling on this evening train and reaching Fishguard very early for the 02:45 sailing (possibly whiling away the few hours at a pub in the area or similar). This was in late-2011. The recent changes to SailRail probably compel one to travel later so such early for the ferry passengers probably now don't exist unless using separate rail and ferry tickets for some reason.

 

[Greenback]

The 1739 is booked for a 2-car 175 anyway I think, certainly needs to be a three-car from Cardiff, but then it leaves Manchester at 1430 which is probably dead quiet then, hence the 2-car!

Yes, and apparently there's also not a ferry from Fishguard at that time anyway according to someone who said on here!

This is the big problem with the route and the 175's - there aren't enough three car units (and they can get overcrowded too) and every diagram will have parts where more capacity is needed, either on the way there or the way back!

 

[ValleyLines142]

This is the big problem with the route and the 175's - there aren't enough three car units (and they can get overcrowded too) and every diagram will have parts where more capacity is needed, either on the way there or the way back!

Being perfectly honest, how many people go through from Swansea and further west to Hereford and beyond? I think it should be split, wouldn't make that much of a problem with one change?