And People Wonder why

[Hydro]

Try reading the internal job adverts, they are now so stylised and full of fluff. That sometimes the only way to workout if the job is for Civils, S&T, PW or E&P, is to look up the named contact manager on the Organisation chart and see what he does.

They are awful. Especially the ones that have a vague job title and spend the first few paragraphs explaining what Network Rail does. Erm, it's an internal advert.

If you can read it and you're not aware what NR does, you must be in managem<EDITED FOR LIBEL>

It's as if people don't want applicants to know what they're applying for.
.

 

[Nym]

They are awful. Especially the ones that have a vague job title and spend the first few paragraphs explaining what Network Rail does. Erm, it's an internal advert.

If you can read it and you're not aware what NR does, you must be in managem<EDITED FOR LIBEL>

It's as if people don't want applicants to know what they're applying for.
.

You'd be supprised Hydro, I've been through many a page of recruitment unf. some companies are rather vauge about what you'd be doing, but they have to be.

But companies that don't have to be spout off so much rubbish about what you can do and what the company can do for you, and everything that because they do one thing, it's a requirement of that to do everything else.

EG.

Our professional development programme is accredited by and follows the guidelines set down by the IET and UKEC.

Short, simple, to the point.

They'll spin that out to five paragraphs!

I don't want to know what the IET training scheme does, I found that out from the IET, IMechE, IRSE, InstMC, IEEE you name it...

What I want to know is what I'd be doing on the job, and what you want from me, not all this corprate ****.

I would rather work for a railwayman with 30 years knowledge stored away in his head with no formal qualifications than a fresh out of uni/college grad who has been fast tracked into a high position any day,and i've worked for both types,fotunately the former more than the latter,no offence to any grads on here.

None taken on the condition that you know that not all graduates are fresh out of uni / college and this is their first proper job.
I hold equal levels of contempt for being ordered around by some silly **** who because they've been to "Business School" and have an MBA that the're somehow qualified to manage someone who has been working in this trade or a related trade for years. I've been to business school, trust me, you learn nothing! You learn how to manage in an idealistic world where faires run sites, and pigs fly on the front of 66s carrying air conditioning packs.

Oh, and that contempt is justified, I have worked previously with the OTC (Officer Traning Corps) and officer cadets from RMA Sandhurst, and the're all absolutely clueless, but then still come round saying, I'm right, you're wrong. etc etc.

You've been a Wednesday Warrior for a year and you think you're better than someone who instructs this? ****ing jog on! </offtopic>

Anyone else guess that I'm really not a fan of the corprate machine?

Edit for clarity.
The otc roles took over what ncos should be doing, hence contempt. And the corprate machine always put me in office team building excersises

 

[S19]

lots of stuff

as a fellow Project Planner I pretty much agree with what you say.

We have Project Managers where I work with none of our industry experience, and I'd argue that they are actually stronger in some areas than those who've come up the ranks internally.

 

[CosherB]

OT doesn't tell us the job title being advertised, but if it is a sufficiently senior position, the recruiter will be looking for proven management abilitues rather than specific industry knowledge. That's the way it should be - as other have said already this person will have the technical and PM expertise below him; his job will be strategic, not 'down in the weeds'.

Does the chirman of BA have to be a pilot? Does the CEO of Astra Zeneca need to be a qualified medic? Does the chairman of IBM need to know how to normalise a database? Does the President of the US need to know a rudder pedal from a flap lever to get a bomb dropped on his enemy?

 

[DarloRich]

as a fellow Project Planner I pretty much agree with what you say.

We have Project Managers where I work with none of our industry experience, and I'd argue that they are actually stronger in some areas than those who've come up the ranks internally.

It takes all types

 

[Bald Rick]

I got my first job on the railway, in projects, without any railway experience. Still here 20 years later.

Recruit for attitude, train for competence.

 

[68000]

Does the chirman of BA have to be a pilot?

Just so happens he was

Is there a link to the advert OT?

 

[lancastrian]

OT, don't worry, the graduate that applied with proberbly the most transferable rail knowledge for the engineering scheme at NR had his application put on hold, where as the same application with network rail scribbled out and TfL LUL put in has seen that graduate at a phone interview.

At least in London everything will be fine...

Oh and PS: Most graduate staff are absolutely useless because they've never worked a day in their life, amd don't know how to even work properly, let alone how to work in the Rail industry or even a transport industry. Thought that working my whole life since 16 would be an advantage, but NR don't seem to think working over a year in Logistics (as a mover, shover, and planner) is somthing good for their business.

I know from my short ten years working for BR, that every high level job required two people. The one who had the title and couldn't find their backside with both hands, without instruction, directions and guidance; and the assistant, who actually knew the job, did the jobs and when they went on holiday, the person with the job title really struggled.

BR could have saved a great deal of money by getting rid of the first group and promoting the assistants who actually knew and did the work.

 

[Nym]

Hopefully not implying that I fall into the second group there are ya?

 

[lancastrian]

Hopefully not implying that I fall into the second group there are ya?

Purely making an observation of the Area Managers Staff where I worked in the 70's. I have no experiance with the various engineers departments, so I make no inferance what so ever.

 

[Nym]

Purely making an observation of the Area Managers Staff where I worked in the 70's. I have no experiance with the various engineers departments, so I make no inferance what so ever.

Ahhh, in the same camp then, equal levels of contempt for idiot managers...

 

[Oswyntail]

Ahhh, in the same camp then, equal levels of contempt for idiot managers...

All managers are idiots.....until you become one. Then you realise why some people are promoted and some aren't.

 

[Nym]

Oh, not all managers are idiots, but there are plenty of idiot managers...

I've had a fair few managers that are very good at their job and good at the jobs of those under them as well...

This tended to be in the Transport Industry...

 

[Spagnoletti]

In my experience (it outsourcing and utilities, not railways) managers who achieve promotion aren't necessarily any good at managing, just effective at self-promotion and clever politicians.
Project managers tend to be the techies who screwed up one too many times and have to be put somewhere they can't directly do any damage. No wonder so many projects end up as a complete shambles.

 

[johnb]

Just so happens he was

Is there a link to the advert OT?

Nah, the chairman of British Airways was previously a cigarette marketer at BAT, and its CEO was previously a chartered accountant. The CEO of British Airways' parent company IAG used to be a pilot, though.