Unfriendly rail stations to spot trains

[jp4712]

Harlow Town. It's the only station I've ever been to where, as always, I reported to station staff; told them that the photos were for personal use only; that I would stay in public areas; that I would not be using flash gun or any equipment that would be an inconvenience to others (I didn't have a tripod with me anyway); and I was told in no uncertain terms that photography was not allowed and that I would be ejected from the station if I even tried (and I had a first class ticket back to Lichfield on me, by the way). Charming! I intended to drop a line to NXEA saying that I was disappointed at this attitude, but never got round to it.

Paul

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Leeds is the only one I will say, probably because I never inform them of my presence - which is a. because their office is intimidating,

An intimidating office?! I can just about comprehend someone not want to ask because the staff member is intimidating, but not an intimidating office!

b. I don't have time (even train spotters have lives )

You have time to spend taking photographs of trains, yet you don't have time to take out 3 minutes and ask permission?

and c. because they don't allow tripods, which are a neccessity when making my videos / taking photos at night.

So you know you are doing wrong and that is why you don't ask?

I think the above post illustrates why some staff are reluctant to allow people to take photographs on stations. I hope you don't complain and brandish the guidelines when you get asked to leave if you have made no effort to follow them yourself.

 

[wbbminerals]

An intimidating office?! I can just about comprehend someone not want to ask because the staff member is intimidating, but not an intimidating office!

You have time to spend taking photographs of trains, yet you don't have time to take out 3 minutes and ask permission?

So you know you are doing wrong and that is why you don't ask?

I think the above post illustrates why some staff are reluctant to allow people to take photographs on stations. I hope you don't complain and brandish the guidelines when you get asked to leave if you have made no effort to follow them yourself.

Well I know NR don't like it, it doesn't mean it's wrong. I'm not harming anyone or doing anything even slightly wrong so... Anyway it's sad that it's come to this.

EDIT: In all honesty, a video filmed by me isn't worth the hard drive space it is written on if it is handheld because I can't keep my hand still. Perhaps an idea would be to make some b/s about that to justify use of a tripod??

 

[deltic1989]

I once had one or two unkind words from a member of staff at Crewe, but that was years ago and I've been back since and had no problems. Generally I tend to find that most stations are accomodating. What I usually do is go and find a member of staff when I arrive and inform them that I'm there and ask whom I would speak to for permission to take photographs, usually the reply is "Fine, carry on" but sometimes I'm told, no photos of staff or passengers, which is cool with me I'm just there to take pictures of trains. Did have a fella at Lincoln Central ask me what i was up to once when i was taking pictures of the station fixtures, but i explained that I was planning a model, he was fine with that and ask if i could show him some pics of the finished product, so when im done ill take him some.

 

[Harlesden]

I'm still wondering about the phrase "photting on a car park" (reply #6). I know all sorts of thing happen in car parks these days.

 

[ChrisCooper]

I'm still wondering about the phrase "photting on a car park" (reply #6). I know all sorts of thing happen in car parks these days.

Bit like dogging, or cottaging?

Actually I've said before but carparks are something people should be wary of as they are usually privatly owned (that includes station carparks) and therefore you do not have an automatic right to be there or taking photographs, especially if you are not a customer. Also there is a chance you might be viewed as a security risk, afterall carparks are quite bad for crime, and it could also be argued that you are creating an obstruction or are at risk depending on where you are standing. Someone standing near the edge of a multistory carpark might also be viewed as a potential jumper too.

The same can be said for some other locations off railway property where railway photography can be done from. Actually tresspass on neighbouring property is quite a bad problem with rail photographers for big events. I know at least one preserved railway which has had problems in the past with complaints due to tresspass on event days, including private roads near the line being blocked by cars and photographers. Just because you are standing the right side of the fence doesn't mean you are allowed to be there.

 

[scoope]

Bit like dogging, or cottaging?

Actually I've said before but carparks are something people should be wary of as they are usually privatly owned (that includes station carparks) and therefore you do not have an automatic right to be there or taking photographs, especially if you are not a customer. Also there is a chance you might be viewed as a security risk, afterall carparks are quite bad for crime, and it could also be argued that you are creating an obstruction or are at risk depending on where you are standing. Someone standing near the edge of a multistory carpark might also be viewed as a potential jumper too.

The same can be said for some other locations off railway property where railway photography can be done from. Actually tresspass on neighbouring property is quite a bad problem with rail photographers for big events. I know at least one preserved railway which has had problems in the past with complaints due to tresspass on event days, including private roads near the line being blocked by cars and photographers. Just because you are standing the right side of the fence doesn't mean you are allowed to be there.

I agree with this quote, lets be honest people...............these companies, businesses and private people (owners of land) have problems with "us lot". Lets try and be a bit thoughtful to others needs and responsibilities. A few years ago a chap taking photos triped up and broke his leg on a farm next to the WCML and sued the farmer as he hadnt taken enough steps to prevent a rail enthusiast from entering his land to take a photo. Cost him/his insurers 15k. I remember as many of us will, standing next to the track taking photos, entering depots and yards...............................from an insurance point of veiw, you cannot do that these days................simple.
Car parks are privatly owned or run, unless you buy a ticket you will be seen as trespasing and asked/told to move. farmers with fields around depots often agree with requests from depot owners to block foot traffic due to security issues. The message is check before you go, check whilst there and dont get upset if you are turned away.
However I do beleive that stations are a different matter as previously stated by others

 

[Southwest]

What's Birmingham International like these days?

I've got to take the other half to the NEC for a show on Sunday 22nd and was going to kill a couple of hours watching the trains.

Any info gratefully accepted.

 

[onein37]

oh dear oh dear Clapham junction today..............

Had a day out round the London stations. No problems photographing at Marylebone, Paddington, Kings Cross, Liverpool St, Waterloo or London Bridge. Was asked what i was doing at Cannon St but was ok. At Clapham Junc there iniatally appeared no problem as there were several others photographing as 66711 went through. Then i changed platforms..........big mistake....... was challenged by a security guard who asked me what i was doing......i stated the obvious without being bolshy. Oh ok he said. 2 minutes later he was back with another security guard. "You will have to get permission from the station manager,its against the law to take photos on the station",i was told. I was frog marched to the managers office (how i was supposed to have asked the manager myself,through a keypad controlled door, i dont know). The manager told me about all the security risks,blah blah blah and the security guards were doing there job. But i only want to take a few photos,no flash,no tripod. He said i could continue photographing for a "short while" but the 2 bouncers would escort me. I told him not to bother and caught the next train to Waterloo............

 

[Southwest]

"You will have to get permission from the station manager,its against the law to take photos on the station"

Truth or myth?

 

[wbbminerals]

Truth or myth?

Myth that it's illegal - I believe the bye-laws permit it if you're just passing through.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Truth or myth?

Bit of both really. Railway stations are private property so you must request permission to take photographs. In general, the position seems to be that permission exists unless you are informed by the staff otherwise when you sign in.

 

[yorkie]

Bit of both really. Railway stations are private property so you must request permission to take photographs.

Really? Where is that documented?

(Please don't say the Enthusiast Guidelines as they are Guidelines, so the word "must" does not apply; they only apply to Enthusiasts and not all photographers are enthusiasts; and some of their requests are impossible to fulfil if you arrive by train; the assumptions in the Guidelines indicate that they apply to people who arrive by another mode of transport, never travel by train, and hang around for hours. If the Guidelines were rules then I would be in massive trouble as I've stood near a departure board before!)

In general, the position seems to be that permission exists unless you are informed by the staff otherwise

I agree with that.

(without the signing in bit; either the guidelines do not apply to me or I'd be laughed at if I tried to sign in to every station I used "Hi, I am here to take a train in 10 minutes, can I sign in?" )

 

[Gathursty]

This seems to be the right thread to tack this question into:

What is Sellafield station like for taking photos, with the nuclear station opposite?

 

[scotsman]

This seems to be the right thread to tack this question into:

What is Sellafield station like for taking photos, with the nuclear station opposite?

Probably a good way to attract the Civil Nuclear Constabulary - there was a website, which I found a few years back, which gave details and photos of flask workings near to a nuclear site. It said that photographers WOULD gain the attention of the police, and would have to satisfy them as to what they were doing.

I imagine "on yer way" is not a particularly well used phrase by the Nuclear Polis

 

[scoope]

Sellafield is fine, spent many a happy few hours there.............wrap up warm though in winter, spring, autumn.......................oh and summer. The basic rules are simple...ish. The CNC do not have control of the station in any way what so ever however as has been stated on other topic pages, if you stand there with a big telephoto lense and bags of equipment you may/will attract the British Transport police or station/rail employees. These will have been informed by CNC officers. The site is understanably high security, the station is used by its workers. Expect to be monitored all the time, expect to be asked about how long you are going to be, be polite and respectful of the site and its operations/staff. You certainly wont find yourself face down on the platform with guns pointing at you.......................unless I have just been lucky.

 

[Gathursty]

Ah, that sounds alright I guess. My aim is to only take a quick pic of the 'Sellafield' station sign and of the beach of course and either take the next train or cycle back in the Barrow direction towards Ravenglass via Seascale and Drigg.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Really? Where is that documented?

Railway stations are private property. You must obtain permission to photograph on private property. That is what the law says. However, as I said it appears with railways that permission exists unless you're informed otherwise.

(Please don't say the Enthusiast Guidelines as they are Guidelines, so the word "must" does not apply; they only apply to Enthusiasts and not all photographers are enthusiasts; and some of their requests are impossible to fulfil if you arrive by train; the assumptions in the Guidelines indicate that they apply to people who arrive by another mode of transport, never travel by train, and hang around for hours. If the Guidelines were rules then I would be in massive trouble as I've stood near a departure board before!)

Unfortunately some enthusiasts use the guidelines as gospel to get permission yet refuse to follow the bits they don't like as they are guidelines. I'm not saying this is you, but it's something I've observed on this forum. Either they are guidelines and enthusiasts accept that they don't have to be followed by staff, or they take them as rules and sign in as it requests you to do so.

I agree that it is a grey area where general photographers and passengers are concerned. They could certainly do with clarification.

I agree with that.

(without the signing in bit; either the guidelines do not apply to me or I'd be laughed at if I tried to sign in to every station I used "Hi, I am here to take a train in 10 minutes, can I sign in?" )

I can't remember what the guidelines say off the top of my head, but I think that informing staff f your presence is ok.



Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk

 

[wbbminerals]

Up here in the North of England nearly all railway staff know what you're doing and don't bug you (thank God).

 

[Nym]

You certainly wont find yourself face down on the platform with guns pointing at you.......................unless I have just been lucky.

You might if you start photographing the round containers on flask workings and the people on board are feeling a bit jumpy. Then you'll have MP5s, L85a2s, HK53s and maybe the odd Sig Sauer P227 pointing at your face. MoD can be jumpy sometimes if there is a threat or impending threat (and there usually is!). As for the Glow in the Dark Pigs, I've never known them to be threatening to any MoP, remember that Sellafeild used to (and possibly still does) have a visitors centre, so they know how to behave, but just realise, some things with a high quality camera they won't want photos taking.

 

[Schnellzug]

"if there is a threat or impending threat". The Terrorist Menace is such a handy all-purpose excuse for anything at all, isn't it. If there wasn't a Global Terror Network of Evil lurking around every corner, they migt have to make one up to justify anything at all that they wanted to justify, wouldn't they.


....

 

[Nym]

Well, the people in the annulus don't make stuff up, it's No.10 that makes stuff up, the annulus just listens, and they provide the 'current threat level' information.

 

[ChrisCooper]

There is no law that says it is illegal to take photographs on private property without the owners permission. Owners of private property though are able to make up their own rules regarding who is allowed on their property and what they are allowed to do, and someone who breeches those laws can be asked to leave and if they refuse they are considered tresspassing and then it becomes a legal matter. Currently Network Rail who are the owners of the railway infrastructure say that photography is allowed on their stations.

 

[Nym]

Two words: Terrorism Act...

 

[jon0844]

Don't give them ideas - that has already been abused enough as it is!

Any half decent terrorist would be taking (or have already taken) photos covertly, not standing on a platform openly taking pictures of trains.

Unless they're trying a double bluff - ah, clever. Best lock up every tourist at King's Cross taking pictures at platform 9 3/4!!

 

[Snapper]

There is no law that says it is illegal to take photographs on private property without the owners permission. Owners of private property though are able to make up their own rules regarding who is allowed on their property and what they are allowed to do, and someone who breeches those laws can be asked to leave and if they refuse they are considered tresspassing and then it becomes a legal matter. Currently Network Rail who are the owners of the railway infrastructure say that photography is allowed on their stations.

NR are the owners, but they are rarely the managers of the stations. In fact, they manage very few (the major stations). All others are managed by the relevant TOCs. The National Rail enquiries website will tell you who manages what:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/clj/details.html

In fact, Clapham Junction is manged by SWT. If anyone has any further hassle I suggest that they write to SWTs new MD, Tim Shoveller. He's enthusiast friendly and will soon sort things out.

 

[Harbon 1]

oh dear oh dear Clapham junction today..............

Had a day out round the London stations. No problems photographing at Marylebone, Paddington, Kings Cross, Liverpool St, Waterloo or London Bridge. Was asked what i was doing at Cannon St but was ok. At Clapham Junc there iniatally appeared no problem as there were several others photographing as 66711 went through. Then i changed platforms..........big mistake....... was challenged by a security guard who asked me what i was doing......i stated the obvious without being bolshy. Oh ok he said. 2 minutes later he was back with another security guard. "You will have to get permission from the station manager,its against the law to take photos on the station",i was told. I was frog marched to the managers office (how i was supposed to have asked the manager myself,through a keypad controlled door, i dont know). The manager told me about all the security risks,blah blah blah and the security guards were doing there job. But i only want to take a few photos,no flash,no tripod. He said i could continue photographing for a "short while" but the 2 bouncers would escort me. I told him not to bother and caught the next train to Waterloo............

That's strange. I went in Feb of last year and was not hassled one bit, went onto every platform, and took a load of photos and videos. Although I would stay clear of Vauxhall as they are not too friendly and was seen as a bigger menace than the man who was pi**ing against the wall :roll:

 

[nedchester]

Probably a good way to attract the Civil Nuclear Constabulary - there was a website, which I found a few years back, which gave details and photos of flask workings near to a nuclear site. It said that photographers WOULD gain the attention of the police, and would have to satisfy them as to what they were doing.

I imagine "on yer way" is not a particularly well used phrase by the Nuclear Polis

I would imagine that Sellafield is getting a lot of enthusiasts taking photos at the moment with the 37 hauled train doing a turn from there (and especially as the evening draw out).

The station is outside the jurisdiction of the CNC and seeing as it is unmanned then you should have no problem. Just be polite if the CNC bother you, however they cannot stop you.

I have had them watching me at Capenhurst (my local station) which is also next to a nuclear facility.

 

[Nym]

That's strange. I went in Feb of last year and was not hassled one bit, went onto every platform, and took a load of photos and videos. Although I would stay clear of Vauxhall as they are not too friendly and was seen as a bigger menace than the man who was pi**ing against the wall :roll:

Theres a club for that in Vauxhaull though, tends not to be seen as an issue maybe?

 

[onein37]

That's strange. I went in Feb of last year and was not hassled one bit, went onto every platform, and took a load of photos and videos. Although I would stay clear of Vauxhall as they are not too friendly and was seen as a bigger menace than the man who was pi**ing against the wall :roll:

yes i gave a Vauxhall a miss,it was crawling with staff. Waterloo also had private security guards but only round the ticket barriers. Never had any problem down the platforms. Do seem to get some strange looks at just about every manned station these days. The modern youngish rail employee is clearly not an enthusiast not like the rail employees of old who all seemed to have a passing interest and understood why i wanted to take train photos!