Cruise liner sinks off Italy

[YorkshireBear]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16558910

Cant see it anywhere in the thread (i have looked for 5 minutes)
Cant believe the images i am seeing.

£300 million curise liner, designed not to sink under any circumstances calm seas. Someone somewhere has ballsed up massively here. 6 sister ships most likely to be grounded. Big mess.

Most importanly though R.I.P to those who have lost their lives. Thoughts with their friends and family.

 

[curly42]

The thread title makes it sound a bigger disaster than it actually is !!

Having said that,all sympathy to those involved,and to the families of the deceased.

 

[Aictos]

Did they not say that about the Titanic in 1912 though that she too was unsinkable, lessons not learnt perhaps?

 

[Geezertronic]

Not good news...

 

[WestCoast]

They hadn't even had their evacuation drill yet...

RIP to those who lost their lives. Some people could still be missing, so lets hope they are found.

I think the emergency services and residents on the small island of Giglio deserve praise for their swift handling of the situation in the middle of the night. Schools, hotels and churches provided accommodation for some 4,000 people.

 

[Greenback]

It will be interesting to see what effect this has on the cruise industry. The recent growth in cruise holidays may slow as a result of this, and this particular crusie line may be badly affected.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Sorry for the typing error in title (its not gramatical as i was sure id put Cruise Liner sinks off the coast of italy... my keyboard didnt respond i didnt check so sorry for that.)

Could one of the mod change it to something more reasonable please.

 

[ChrisCooper]

I think with things like this though we again see that sensationalism that these big accidents always result in. Yes, 4 people died and it's awful for their families (as it is for the families of the millions of others who died around the world yesterday in various circumstances), but over 4000 survived, and the majority have probably walked away fairly unharmed.

 

[WestCoast]

It will be interesting to see what effect this has on the cruise industry. The recent growth in cruise holidays may slow as a result of this, and this particular crusie line may be badly affected.

Costa are getting a bit of a reputation, after a previous accident in Egypt where 3 crew members were killed. They are in the middle range of the market as I remember. They are owned by Carnival Cruise Lines, a British-American shipping line.

The latest from Sky News is that over 50 passengers are still missing, allegedly including 24 British holidaymakers. The priority now has to be locate those missing.

The ship involved is the Costa Concordia, launched in 2005.

but over 4000 survived, and the majority have probably walked away fairly unharmed.

This is ongoing though with the latest figures from the coastguard saying 69 unaccounted for.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I think with things like this though we again see that sensationalism that these big accidents always result in. Yes, 4 people died and it's awful for their families (as it is for the families of the millions of others who died around the world yesterday in various circumstances), but over 4000 survived, and the majority have probably walked away fairly unharmed.

The points i was raising were the fact that the ship was designed for this not to happen... and people are getting complacent maybe with their attitude towards it.

 

[Greenback]

Costa are getting a bit of a reputation. They are in the middle range of the market as I remember. They are owned by Carnival Cruise Lines, a British-American shipping line.

The latest from Sky News is that over 50 passengers are still missing, including 24 British holidaymakers. The priority now has to be locate those missing.

The ship involved is the Costa Concordia, launched in 2005.

Carnival own a lot of cruise lines, it is the Costa brand that is, as you say, getting a reputation. They have Italian competition in MSC, who may benefit from this disaster.

One cruise director I have spoken to used to work for Costa and had nothing positive at all to say about their operation, which, in his position, was mostly to do with the hotel and entertainment side of things. Nonetheless, it has put us off ever even thinking about them as a reputable line!

 

[Schnellzug]

That was one of the better looking of the modern cruise ships. Obviously she'll be salvaged, they could hardly leave her where she is, but I wonder if she'd be the first modern cruise ship for a long time to be a total loss?
Who knows, this might provoke a rethink of the safety standards for these mega-cruise lines that cut costs at every opportunity. Surely the deaths could only have been caused by panic, and panic could only be the result of poor safety training of the crew. Sometimes pigeons come home to roost.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
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£300 million curise liner, designed not to sink under any circumstances .

If anyone did claim that that should be a candidate for Most Foolish Statement for a Very Long Time.

 

[Greenback]

That was one of the better looking of the modern cruise ships. Obviously she'll be salvaged, they could hardly leave her where she is, but I wonder if she'd be the first modern cruise ship for a long time to be a total loss?
Who knows, this might provoke a rethink of the safety standards for these mega-cruise lines that cut costs at every opportunity. Surely the deaths could only have been caused by panic, and panic could only be the result of poor safety training of the crew. Sometimes pigeons come home to roost.

One of the most striking things to come out of the reports for me is the lack of a muster drill. Most cruise lines schedule this to take place before the ship even leaves its first port. Costa seem to have decided that it would be OK to have their drill the day after departure, and, in fairness, international maritime law does state that it must take place within the first 24 hours of leaving the departure port.

I wonder if the law might be need to be changed? In conjunction with possible crew training issues, if people wer enot familiar with the procedures, or wher ethey needed to go in an emergency, this would have contributed massively to the panic and confusion that has been reported.

I bet there will be far fewer moans about msuter drill in future. In my experience the passengers had become more complacent than the cruise lines.

 

[WestCoast]

Yeah, why was the muster drill not held sooner? You wouldn't expect an airline safety demo to be held an hour after departure; people need to know where to go and what to do ASAP.

There's a video here of the shipwreck: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYwLQDwqDCI

 

[Greenback]

Yeah, why was the muster drill not held sooner?

I would love to know the answer to that one. Of the three cruise lines I have travelled with, two of them also owned overall by Carnival, they have all held the drills before leaving the first port.

 

[GearJammer]

I don't pretend to know much about ships but how could this happen, i thought these modern ships had all radar gizmo's etc to prevent this kinda thing going on, in one of the pics you can see the hull and theres a big hole in it about half way down, i would have thought a ship that has run a ground would stay upright but get well and truely stuck, and if it did run aground why is the big hole half way down the ship, i would expect it to be at the front?

 

[Greenback]

I don't pretend to know much about ships but how could this happen, i thought these modern ships had all radar gizmo's etc to prevent this kinda thing going on, in one of the pics you can see the hull and theres a big hole in it about half way down, i would have thought a ship that has run a ground would stay upright but get well and truely stuck, and if it did run aground why is the big hole half way down the ship, i would expect it to be at the front?

These are just some of the questions that will hopefully be answered following the investigation and, presumably, an inquiry.

Human error would seem to be the likeliest explanation for running aground, though I don't wish to speculate. I am more interested in the technical areas of ship design - if there is soem sort of flaw there given that modern ships are incredibly 'top heavy' (not necessarily in weight, but definitely in bulk) ther emay be some interesting lessons here that might have ramifications for amny, many years to come.

 

[YorkshireBear]

If anyone did claim that that should be a candidate for Most Foolish Statement for a Very Long Time.

OKay i will rephrase, It was designed that if the hull was breached it should not capsize. The hull was breached, in calm seas and had ran aground why did it then capsize, it makes no sense. They are designed to stay upright in more harsh conditions. Maybe not unsinkable thats not what i meant.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The BBC Ceefax includes a comment that the passenger list may not be up to date

 

[Greenback]

The BBC Ceefax includes a comment that the passenger list may not be up to date

If true, that is quite worrying. It is a pretty basic requirement to know who is actually on board. This is why check in takes so long and you swipe on and off the ship when going ashore. On every cruise I've been on ther ehave also been announcements calling for certain passengers by name before departrue from a port of call. I always assumed that these were people who had come back aboard but the swipe cards had not worked properly and so a manual check was done.

 

[WestCoast]

There's a map showing it was perhaps off course.

*I've removed it for copyright reasons*

Latest update here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...red-dead-and-69-passengers-still-missing.html

I wonder if the 69 feared missing could be due to possible inaccuracies in the passenger count.

 

[kylemore]

lets hope that many of the "70 unaccounted for" are down to confusion or miss-reporting, however at this late stage that is increasingly unlikely.
There are many elderly passengers on these cruises who may have had difficulty getting up from cabins on lower decks and I think the majority of crew still missing would be Engine Room staff who either stayed at their posts or delayed evacuation.
However there is still hope, she seems to have settled with still a large section above water and many of the unaccounted may still be alive but trapped, I'm sure that as we speak rescue teams will be searching through the vast ship for both passengers and crew.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

There are a few interesting remarks on a marine forum about this and key points are:

*This ship ( and quite a few other modern builds ) have hull plates only 12mm thick instead of the previously typical 25mm thick.

*This ship does not have full height deep tanks ( the extension of the double bottom up the sides of the hull to the waterline ) as this feature has been progressively reduced in recent years.

*The normal route in this area is to pass south of the island; instead she was heading directly at the middle of it at 15+ knots and made a sharp starboard turn really close in.

There are other points, but some of them seem rather speculative at the moment, so I won't repeat them just yet.

 

[chris89]

Lets hope those who are missing are found though.

Don't know much about ships but didnt she roll over apparntly quite quickly after hitting that sandbank? Have to be greatful it happened so close to the coast/ in shallow water.

Chris

 

[WestCoast]

The latest update is that rescue workers have found 3 people trapped onboard, a couple on their honeymoon from South Korea and an Italian crewmember with a broken leg. 40 people are unfortunately still unaccounted for.

The Captain has been arrested on suspicion of manslaughter, with prosecutors saying that he left the ship before the evacuation was complete. The First Officer has also been detained.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

The captain is apparently blaming out of date charts (which does have some substance to it in that sandbanks do move) for hitting the rock.

 

[Schnellzug]

The latest update is that rescue workers have found 3 people trapped onboard, a couple on their honeymoon from South Korea and an Italian crewmember with a broken leg. 40 people are unfortunately still unaccounted for.

The Captain has been arrested on suspicion of manslaughter, with prosecutors saying that he left the ship before the evacuation was complete. The First Officer has also been detained.

Reminds me rather of that one that sank off South Africa, and the captain insisted that he be the first to take the lifeboats, so he could "supervise the evacuation".
Yes.

 

[WestCoast]

Yes, it seems plausible, but the route taken is very interesting....

 

[Schnellzug]

The captain is apparently blaming out of date charts (which does have some substance to it in that sandbanks do move) for hitting the rock.

yes, but charts are all electronic these days, and surely a company of that size and wealth should be in possession of the latest updates.

 

[WestCoast]

Reminds me rather of that one that sank off South Africa, and the captain insisted that he be the first to take the lifeboats, so he could "supervise the evacuation".
Yes.

I fail to see what excuse the captain could have for going before the passengers....??

The Captain is in charge of his/her vessel.