Thames Rover & Thames Branches Day Ranger Restrictions

[kar3emosman]

Is anyone able to confirm weather or not there are restrictions in place on the Thames Rover & Thames Branches Day Ranger in the evening?

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/promotions/pr601e4c0a04000200f63dfe8f29a46f/details.html
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/promotions/pr974ce40a04000201573f9c65800c99/details.html

The above links to the National Rail website indicate for both tickets:

Available after 0930 (Monday-Fridays) or when Cheap Day Return is valid (whichever is earlier).

Available all day Saturdays, Sundays and Bank Holidays.

Only available within the area shown on the map.

FGW's website mentions restrictions on many services departing PAD between 1600 and 1915.

http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/...-Valley-Ranger-and-Rover-terms-and-conditions

Are these restrictions still in place?

 

[bb21]

The Manual says that restrictions still apply to selected departures (as listed on the FGW website) from Paddington between 1600 and 1915 on weekdays.

 

[SickyNicky]

However, the Manual is not a public document and National Rail Enquiries says:

National Rail Enquiries (NRE) is the definitive source of information for all passenger rail services on the National Rail network in England, Wales and Scotland.

So I would be happy to use this ticket in the evening peak, armed with printouts from NRE.

 

[RJ]

Any railway staff with access to The Manual will know that what's in there is not to be taken as gospel, so I wouldn't even bother quoting from it if there's a clear contradiction in publicity. When I worked in the ticket office, this was made crystal clear. Go by what NRE says because as you say, that's the definitive source of information.

Any railway staff who feel aggrieved at The Manual showing incorrect information ought to take it up internally/with ATOC and should not be putting it out into the public domain.

 

[LexyBoy]

The Thames 3 Day Rover carries restriction B1, which is the same as most local CDRs in the Thames Valley. No mention of evening peak restrictions, only "Any train except those timed to depart M-F before 0930" (I think we can ignore the Return Travel column ).

I would expect the ticket to be challenged if travelling on "Peak" trains, however. The FGW website claims that the usual evening peak services are barred for this ticket.

I'd imagine the absence of restrictions dates to the days when the evening peak from Paddington was defined not in the ticket restrictions, but by some bizarre restriction on trains (I can't remember the ins and outs). Since the Rover is relatively unknown, it's probably slipped through the net when the restrictions were transferred to the ticket validity code. The whole evening peak situation from Paddington is a mess and there still isn't agreement between NRE, the FGW website and the departures boards at Paddington.

I'm sure FGW will get ATOC to amend the restriction code in due course, but until then it's valid on all trains after 0930 - just come armed with relevant printouts

The Thames Branches Day Ranger carries restriction T3, which does bar evening peak trains.

 

[SickyNicky]

The Thames Branches Day Ranger carries restriction T3, which does bar evening peak trains.

Indeed. But that restriction isn't published on the NRE site, so anyone buying it based on the information from NRE (which would certainly include me) would be buying it based on the information given.

I would still be happy to use this ticket in the evening peak with the relevant print outs from NRE because as Joe Public I have no way to know otherwise.

 

[JonathanH]

Indeed. But that restriction isn't published on the NRE site, so anyone buying it based on the information from NRE (which would certainly include me) would be buying it based on the information given.

I would still be happy to use this ticket in the evening peak with the relevant print outs from NRE because as Joe Public I have no way to know otherwise.

Why is the view that the Paddington (and Reading) evening peak restriction a mess - the alternative is a blanket restriction 4pm to 7.15pm. It has been in place for a long long time now and I expect most travellers know exactly what they are doing when they travel at this time.

 

[bb21]

The phrase or when Cheap Day Return is valid (whichever is earlier) is ambiguous as it does not specify which flow one should be using for reference. For example, Reading - London Terminals CDR is restriction P7, which carries these afternoon restrictions, whereas some local journeys don't.

I think we can all see what the intention here was however given that NRE is unclear about the afternoon restrictions, I am inclined to believe it is valid on these selected trains, for now.

 

[John @ home]

Why is the view that the Paddington (and Reading) evening peak restriction [is] a mess

Because the rules changed a few years ago from designating certain trains in the evening peak on which a number of ticket types were not valid to doing it the other way round. Instead, some ticket restrictions were altered to include a list of some evening peak trains from Paddington and Reading on which that ticket type was not valid.

This change was not implemented correctly and generates complaints on this forum several times a year.

Now, several years after the change, the list of barred evening peak trains is still included in some but not all of the restriction codes for the appropriate ticket types which can be used from Paddington or Reading.

 

[LexyBoy]

Because the rules changed a few years ago from designating certain trains in the evening peak on which a number of ticket types were not valid to doing it the other way round. Instead, some ticket restrictions were altered to include a list of some evening peak trains from Paddington and Reading on which that ticket type was not valid.

This change was not implemented correctly and generates complaints on this forum several times a year.

Now, several years after the change, the list of barred evening peak trains is still included in some but not all of the restriction codes for the appropriate ticket types which can be used from Paddington or Reading.

Plus, recently (not sure if it's still the case) the boards at Paddington showed some trains not listed in the restrictions as being 'peak'. There's also something amiss with the way NRE is programmed to deal with the restrictions- some evening trains from Reading to Paddington, and from Reading to Didcot, show up with only Anytime fares available. There are no evening peak restrictions on either flow.

However I agree that a blanket time ban would be worse, although most passengers travelling to Reading or beyond are unaware that Off Peak tickets to/from London are valid on the stoppers.

 

[bnm]

However I agree that a blanket time ban would be worse, although most passengers travelling to Reading or beyond are unaware that Off Peak tickets to/from London are valid on the stoppers.

A blanket time ban still requires all ticket restrictions to match the wishes of FGW. There are still many flows where it is perfectly allowed to board a so-called 'barred' train with Off Peak tickets.

 

[LexyBoy]

A blanket time ban still requires all ticket restrictions to match the wishes of FGW. There are still many flows where it is perfectly allowed to board a so-called 'barred' train with Off Peak tickets.

Of course- it might be slightly simpler to implement though (less chance of disagreements about which trains are barred on a given ticket).

Over New Year I held three 'Off Peak' tickets valid from London to Reading- one valid on any train, one valid only on trains not on the evening barred list, and one not valid on any trains departing 1645-1915. Such issues will always be around whilst we have the current system.

 

[island]

And that's before you get into off-peak day tickets too (e.g. an off-peak day ticket from Barking to Reading has restriction B1 and is valid on fast trains in the evening peak).

 

[bnm]

And that's before you get into off-peak day tickets too (e.g. an off-peak day ticket from Barking to Reading has restriction B1 and is valid on fast trains in the evening peak).

Now W1, but still valid on fasts.