what rights do you have if your vaild ticket is refused by RPIs?

[TSR :D]

And what would you do in this situation? Can you just ignore RPI if they're harrasing you? The ticket I'm talking about is perfectly vaild but lesser known types of ticket.

 

[causton]

I believe the best advice is to accept a Penalty Fare/UPFN, paying the minimum amount (to avoid claims of intent to fail to pay the correct fare) and then write to the appropriate body/customer services of the TOC explaining your situation.

 

[34D]

And what would you do in this situation? Can you just ignore RPI if they're harrasing you? The ticket I'm talking about is perfectly vaild but lesser known types of ticket.

Would you be able to post the details? In general I'd say don't ignore them and don't start shouting/swearing.... Others will doubtless have advice.

 

[TSR :D]

I believe the best advice is to accept a Penalty Fare/UPFN, paying the minimum amount (to avoid claims of intent to fail to pay the correct fare) and then write to the appropriate body/customer services of the TOC explaining your situation.

isn't there any other legal ways? I wouldn't do what you said because it is quite lengthy and quite confusing process for me.

Would you be able to post the details? In general I'd say don't ignore them and don't start shouting/swearing.... Others will doubtless have advice.

No details as it didn't happen but I just wondering. But why can't I just ignore and speak nothing? Inspector might bring someone higher up in which might accept your ticket.

Another question, if you went from B to A station on valid ticket. But what happens if inspector doesn't believe your story and swears they saw you coming in train from station C, station B is in between of route AC.

 

[Ivo]

I had this once. Fortunately however I had the classic counter for the event - the Routeing Guide and maps to hand. When using a lesser-known ticket or route it is advisable to take a copy with you whenever possible.

 

[AlterEgo]

If someone is being obstructive, ask politely to speak to the manager. State your case calmly, explaining why you believe the ticket is valid. If they disagree, ask them to look the answer up in The Manual.

If you still get nowhere, accept a UFN and appeal, copying your appeal letter to RPSS and to the TOC concerned (and preferably to the Chief Executive).

 

[WelshBluebird]

I believe the best advice is to accept a Penalty Fare/UPFN, paying the minimum amount (to avoid claims of intent to fail to pay the correct fare) and then write to the appropriate body/customer services of the TOC explaining your situation.

Personally, I find that totally unacceptable.
If you have a valid ticket, then you should not have to go through any of that at all.

 

[AlterEgo]

Personally, I find that totally unacceptable.
If you have a valid ticket, then you should not have to go through any of that at all.

Correct.

But we are talking about practical advice here, not a utopia. The railway carries hundreds of millions of passengers a year. A small proportion are denied travel having paid for the right to do so, and having complied with their responsibilities in the NRCoC.

 

[RJ]

Personally, I find that totally unacceptable.
If you have a valid ticket, then you should not have to go through any of that at all.

The OP asked for practical advice, not for people to state the obvious. We all know that valid tickets should be accepted with minimal fuss, but it's not the case and that's the reality which needs to be discussed here.

I've had these experiences before. Both ended up with the guard "letting me off" because I had Priv discounted tickets. When it gets to that point, I say nothing other than "thank you." I'll allow them to feel like they've done a good deed for the day. No point entering into further discussion if you're exploiting some obscure rule that less that 0.1% of the travelling public will ever make use of. I know that some enthusiasts get some sort of pleasure out of "educating" staff who have the wrong attitude but this is counter-productive. Once they "let you off," let them go. Don't even say "but I was in the right anyway."

One such occasion was on SWT when I was using a London - Southampton ticket to travel via Salisbury where my ticket was checked after Basingstoke. I ended up having to use the routeing guide but that fell on deaf ears. Eventually, the guard gave up and said "I'll let you off this time, but only because you're on Priv."

On another occasion on EMT, I was using a valid combination of tickets, which the guard took exception to. After being patronised and condescended by the guard who was insistent that his 20 years of experience trumped whatever knowledge I had, I wound him up to the maximum possible extent by being extra polite and justifying my validity by showing the NRCoC. My upbeat attitude perplexed him as he said I was a troublemaker. It looked like he was going to pop a few vessels but that wasn't my fault. Eventually, he said that he was being more than fair by "letting me off," but the next time, he'd report me for intentional fare evasion and withdraw my Priv. After the train's first stop almost 100 miles later, he checked my tickets again and I revealed that I had yet another ticket, from the stop we'd just called at. He said "that's much better!" as if he was talking to a toddler. I smiled and let him carry on. After all, I use such tickets purely to save money. Arguments with guards is an unfortunate by-product which occurs on 9/10 occasions.

Seeing as I no longer have a Priv or Season ticket, will have to knock this creative ticketing on the head. My advice is to stand your ground firmly but politely. In my experience, it yields a positive result, even if not in the manner you would have preferred. If they want to MG11/TIR you, let them. It's only if you see them call the police to get you removed that you should agree to whatever sanction they're imposing. And that's only if you don't have the time to wait for the next train. You must be 100% certain that the ticket(s) you hold are valid though, otherwise you'd be digging your own grave.

 

[yorkie]

It would very much depend on the exact circumstances.

The only occasions I can recall, I asked the inspector to look up the conditions. The biggest problems for me were 2 separate occasions caused by the same RPI/guard who worked for Chiltern Railways in 2006. He was not very knowledgeable and on one of the occasions, when he looked up the terms in The Manual (he had a printed copy with him), when he realised I was right, The Manual was slammed shut, he stormed to the guards area of the bubble car, slammed the door and no further tickets were checked on that journey. Out of hundreds of journeys I have made, such incidents are incredibly rare. But they do happen and it is important to be prepared.

There's an ongoing issue at London Victoria / Gatwick Airport where customers are told their (valid) tickets are invalid, and the advice we have given has resulted in nearly everyone being allowed to travel on the tickets in question, and on the 2 cases where people informed us they were charged, we successfully assisted the customers in getting full refunds. The case is now proceeding to be investigated by the ASA, Companies House, the DfT, Passenger Focus, London Travelwatch and MPs. (Anyone who is able to assist the members who are in dispute with Southern are welcome to PM me). However ticket gates replacing manual checks mean that people are far less likely to get hassle from staff now anyway.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

...Seeing as I no longer have a Priv or Season ticket, will have to knock this creative ticketing on the head....

I know people who have PRIVs and have used similar combinations as yourself with a leisure pass (which gets 75% off with PRIV despite being a leisure product) and a string of Anytime Day tickets, on TOCs other than EMT and have had no problems whatsoever. I think it's a Stagecoach/EMT thing. The only ticket offices where customers have told me that staff do not like issuing combinations of "split" tickets are EMT ticket offices. There is absolutely no way that York ticket office would act in the way that Nottingham/Sheffield have done, and if they did I'd be in shock and ask to speak to the manager. I feel sorry for people who have to suffer the attitude that some EMT staff have. I have done mystery shopping at Sheffield station several times but have not yet had poor service. Perhaps they know when we are coming!

 

[RJ]

Try asking for a Bedford to Luton Airport Parkway Anytime Return. I did that at Sheffield whilst buying a EM 3 in 7 and LTN - London SOR and the clerk said I couldn't have the ticket because Anytime Returns were not available for such short distance journeys! Nuisance really. SORs are useful because I normally return either two, three or four days later and it saves the hassle of going to another ticket office to buy splits.

 

[scotsman]

I agree with RJ's advice. It happened to me, a perfectly valid and obvious combination (using both portions of a ticket to complete part of a journey)

The Train Manager disagreed, saying it was a common mistake but since he, unlike many of his colleagues, wasn't a "male genitalia" he would let us go. I explained to him why I thought the ticket might[/I have been valid (I knew bloody well it was valid)

He had stamped both portions, walked away, realised that stamping the return was going to cause problems and endorsed them all with "stamped in error"

Then he walked away again, came back and asked "Hold on, what was your first ticket?" I showed him it. "Oh, sorry lads, that's absolutely fine" - he really couldn't apologise enough.

Result? A commendation to his employer, instead of a letter of complaint

 

[wintonian]

I haven't had any issues with RPI's guards bar 'the look' when using a particularly cheap and valid combination.

However I do seem to occasionally have problems getting ticket offices to see me a perfectly valid ticket without even asking for a split combination.

For example I once asked for a ticket to Belfast via Stranrear intending to travel via London, I was informed that this was only valid on the direct route on XC and not via London, despite them agreeing that it would open the underground barriers as the + symbol was present. In the end they said that if I choose to travel via London then I did so at my own risk as they had advised me that this was not valid.

 

[TSR :D]

Right, thank you very much for all advice and suggestions you've given. I'm still unsure what to do if the second situation arises (See post #4).

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Right, thank you very much for all advice and suggestions you've given. I'm still unsure what to do if the second situation arises (See post #4).

AlterEgo has already explained what to do, in post 6.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Correct.

But we are talking about practical advice here, not a utopia. The railway carries hundreds of millions of passengers a year. A small proportion are denied travel having paid for the right to do so, and having complied with their responsibilities in the NRCoC.

Of course. But if you have a valid ticket, then you have a valid ticket.
If we allow staff to hand out UPFN's and things when a person has a valid fair, then the staff will continue doing that (unless they are told by management and listen to that advice).

The OP asked for practical advice, not for people to state the obvious. We all know that valid tickets should be accepted with minimal fuss, but it's not the case and that's the reality which needs to be discussed here.

Of course, but I do not think having to pay a a fine or whatever and then have to write to the ToC about it is the right away of going about it.

Both ended up with the guard "letting me off" because I had Priv discounted tickets. When it gets to that point, I say nothing other than "thank you." I'll allow them to feel like they've done a good deed for the day. No point entering into further discussion if you're exploiting some obscure rule that less that 0.1% of the travelling public will ever make use of. I know that some enthusiasts get some sort of pleasure out of "educating" staff who have the wrong attitude but this is counter-productive. Once they "let you off," let them go. Don't even say "but I was in the right anyway."

But the problem with that is, as I say above, they will continue to think they are right (which could well lead you or others to have the same issue in the future).

One such occasion was on SWT when I was using a London - Southampton ticket to travel via Salisbury where my ticket was checked after Basingstoke. I ended up having to use the routeing guide but that fell on deaf ears. Eventually, the guard gave up and said "I'll let you off this time, but only because you're on Priv."

I wonder if he would have given up if you weren't?
But again, the above applies. That guard went off on his day not knowing that he was actually wrong.

After being patronised and condescended by the guard

That is one of my bug bears. If you are staff, and you think someone has an invalid ticket, there are ways and means of dealing with the situation (just as if I was a passenger in a similar situation to you I wouldn't be shouting and screaming at the guard!). Again, as I say above, I realise this is a minority of staff, but it does need to be addressed (how I do not know, maybe a "how am I doing" sticker on the back of a member of staffs uniform with a number to phone? - Just a joke btw!).

It's only if you see them call the police to get you removed that you should agree to whatever sanction they're imposing

Out of curiosity, would the old bill just listen to whatever the member of staff was saying? Obviously the coppers would be unlikely to know much about ticketing, so I guess they would have to. But certainly I still feel very uncomfortable about the fact they would listen to what the member of staff is saying and take it as gospel, when sometimes staff can be a million miles from being correct.