New platform and 60 extra carriages for Waterloo commuters

[ChampsRacing]

Itis all very interesting especially since i work all these lines that will be using the 458/5s. One thing that interests me is will they remove all the first class out of the 458s to be converted as the routes they will be on are not a first class route, also there is alot of talk in the depot that the 24 450/5s maybe being reconverted back to first class units for the reading line. All will be revealed in the future now doubt

 

[Helvellyn]

also there is alot of talk in the depot that the 24 450/5s maybe being reconverted back to first class units for the reading line. All will be revealed in the future now doubt

I suspect they will, as it would simplify matters from a fleet planning perspective to have one fleet of 127 450s, rather than two sub-fleets as at present.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

On the question of the 456s, I'm sure I have noticed a few 2 car stop boards going up on some SWT London area platforms in the past 2 - 3 months - and these are - not stations where the 158s are likely to ever call either.

Can't remember the specific locations; I'll have a look next time I'm out.

 

[wintonian]

On the question of the 456s, I'm sure I have noticed a few 2 car stop boards going up on some SWT London area platforms in the past 2 - 3 months - and these are - not stations where the 158s are likely to ever call either.

Can't remember the specific locations; I'll have a look next time I'm out.

I just passed a 2-3 car stop sign at Woking.

 

[ChrisCooper]

What routes would they ever use 2 car 456s on though?

 

[jopsuk]

everything they use 8-car 455s at the moment- taking them to 10 cars.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I just passed a 2-3 car stop sign at Woking.

Yes, but single 158s ( occasionally ) and 159s stop there anyway. The ones I saw were on the inner suburban area.

 

[Uzair]

456's are horrible units! Hopefully SWT won't be getting them.

Regarding the HC 450's, I barely use them, however whenever I do I find the seats to be absolutely ridiculous, so speaking on behalf of all the other HC 450 commuters, a reconfiguration of the seats would be a welcome change.

First post btw!

 

[jopsuk]

SWT have most of the 455s, and I though the HC 450s have the same SC seating as "normal" 450s, just no 1st class?

 

[ChampsRacing]

HC's actually have a better seating configuration that the 450/0/1's as a few have been taken out to improve standing room but also means theres less 3+2 which people hardly use the middle seat.

 

[wintonian]

Yes, but single 158s ( occasionally ) and 159s stop there anyway. The ones I saw were on the inner suburban area.

True, I forgot.

Sent from my HTC Desire S

 

[Uzair]

HC's actually have a better seating configuration that the 450/0/1's as a few have been taken out to improve standing room but also means theres less 3+2 which people hardly use the middle seat.

But what about the width of the seats, which raised numerous complaints from MP's and passengers?

 

[Matt Taylor]

Identical seats but in a different configuration.

 

[Ministry]

Presumably the 458/460 merger will allow some of the 450s to be moved onto the electrified "Hampshire Local" routes which are currently operated by 158s, and in turn SWT will be able to cascade some of their diesel fleet to other operators. Either way it's good to know the 460s have got a future.

 

[Schnellzug]

Presumably the 458/460 merger will allow some of the 450s to be moved onto the electrified "Hampshire Local" routes which are currently operated by 158s, and in turn SWT will be able to cascade some of their diesel fleet to other operators. Either way it's good to know the 460s have got a future.

Isn't the only service covered by them that's on electrified track Lymington-Brokenhurst? Southampton-Romsey-Salisbury isn't, for the most of the way at least.

 

[Uzair]

and in turn SWT will be able to cascade some of their diesel fleet to other operators. Either way it's good to know the 460s have got a future.

Would it be possible that the 158's get converted to 159's, like the ex-TPE units.

 

[Schnellzug]

Would it be possible that the 158's get converted to 159's, like the ex-TPE units.

The 159/1s, née 158s, were three-car originally; to convert 158s into 159s you'd need to add a third car, and I don't think there'd be likely to be any spare ones available any time soon.

 

[The Colonel]

456's are horrible units! Hopefully SWT won't be getting them.

I didn't used to like them but I do have a soft spot for them these days. They are the last purpose built 2 car unit on the Southern Electric and IMHO they would be much better if SWT did get hold of them. SWT units are better kept internally & externally than the other Southern Electric units and if refurbished to match the SWT 455's they would be very good units. Besides they have EE507 traction motors!

Being OT and nostalgic they remind me of the 2 HAP's/EPB's - when I started spotting units were either 2 or 4 car and the 5 cars were special units (5 BEL). Bournemouth line trains had to be counted coachwise to make sure you hadn't missed a 3-TC in the middle, but I digress.

 

[jopsuk]

They are the last purpose built 2 car unit on the Southern Electric

Do the 466s not count?

 

[ChampsRacing]

But what about the width of the seats, which raised numerous complaints from MP's and passengers?

No plans to introduce new seats as far as i know swt got no reason too.

 

[The Colonel]

Do the 466s not count?

I get lost east of Waterloo . . . .

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The 159/1s, née 158s, were three-car originally; to convert 158s into 159s you'd need to add a third car, and I don't think there'd be likely to be any spare ones available any time soon.

I wonder if they could call them 159/2s?

 

[Uzair]

The 159/1s, née 158s, were three-car originally; to convert 158s into 159s you'd need to add a third car, and I don't think there'd be likely to be any spare ones available any time soon.

Ah right, completely forgot about that!

 

[thameslink2000]

If anyone is interested, 460001 in its current state of being a 460, is on the Gatwick Express between Gatwick and London today!

I wonder how much longer Gatwick Express/Southern will be using these trains for, now that their future has been decided?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

The 159/1s, née 158s, were three-car originally; to convert 158s into 159s you'd need to add a third car, and I don't think there'd be likely to be any spare ones available any time soon.

Rubbish! Just because they would be 2 car units doesn't mean they can't be 159s.

We have two and three car 158s, two and three car 150s, two and three car 170s, four and five car 221s (until recently) and not forgetting we've had four, five, seven and nine car 222/0s. None of those variations were given another class number or even (with the exception of the 150s and 170s) a sub class!

 

[swt_passenger]

158 or 159?

I asked about this on the day SWT introduced the first 159/1 into service, there was a press trip from Waterloo and I had a look round the train at Salisbury. Management were there for a Q&A, so I asked why the trains were being classed as 159/1s.

According to the engineering director of the time, Mac Mackintosh, they were allocated subclass 159/1 purely to differentiate the three car units from the two car units in SWT's fleet, which would be left as 158s.

The 158s were to be renumbered slightly (to a consecutive sequence) to distinguish them as the only 158s fitted with retention tanks.

So for SWT planners, 158 = 2, and 159 = 3. I deduce from that that the 158s will not be renumbered.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Presumably the 458/460 merger will allow some of the 450s to be moved onto the electrified "Hampshire Local" routes which are currently operated by 158s, and in turn SWT will be able to cascade some of their diesel fleet to other operators. Either way it's good to know the 460s have got a future.

Not so, the original post lists exactly which mainline services will be rejigged following the 458/460 merger:

The seven mainline services SWT expect to be strengthened are as follows:
Morning peak
Southampton Airport Parkway to Waterloo (8 car to 12 car in high peak)
Portsmouth Harbour to Waterloo via Eastleigh (5 car to 10 car in the peak)
Southampton Central to Waterloo (4 car to 5 car in the peak)
Evening peak
Waterloo to Poole (5 car to 8 car)
Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour via Eastleigh (5 car to 8 car)
Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour via Eastleigh (8 car to 10 car)
Waterloo to Alton (8 car to 12 car)

Nothing whatsoever affecting Hampshire locals or the Lymington Branch unit, so no cascades to other operators - and no reduction in DMUs on third rail...

 

[Nym]

Isn't the only service covered by them that's on electrified track Lymington-Brokenhurst? Southampton-Romsey-Salisbury isn't, for the most of the way at least.

OK, really off topic for a moment, what runs Southampton - Romsey - Sailsbury and how busy is it? Looking at a job round that area and a heads up would be handy...

 

[swt_passenger]

OK, really off topic for a moment, what runs Southampton - Romsey - Sailsbury and how busy is it? Looking at a job round that area and a heads up would be handy...

FGW's hourly Portsmouth Cardiff through service connects Southampton, Romsey and Salisbury, with only those stops. There are also off pattern additional FGW services during the day, some terminate/start at Southampton, two run through from Brighton.
All these trains can be pretty full in the peaks, but I reckon quite a few people just prefer to stand - I have nearly always got a seat somewhere if I've wanted one.

The FGW services are usually three car 158s, unless a 2.158 or a 150 shows up unusually due to non-availability of the booked unit.

SWT 158s run the Southampton - Salisbury all stations stopper via Redbridge and Romsey, these are reasonably loaded west of Southampton only in the peaks. As you probably realise these also extend round to/from Romsey via Eastleigh and Chandlers Ford - but a majority of passengers change at Southampton Central. You can leave Romsey for Southampton in two directions - the longer route via Eastleigh is fine if you were heading to the airport for instance - but it is not heavily loaded at all on leaving Romsey.

So the timetable basically provides a 2 tph service, about half an hour apart at Southampton - and the SWT stopper is the best bet for a spacious table seat if that's useful to you.

 

[Nym]

It is rather useful, weighing up weather to drive or go by train to Romsey, and the hotel I'd be in is at Southampton Airport Pway...

I'm still favouring driving, then I can have much less hassle if returning via Bristol, if on AP tickets I'd need to know if I can meet up with someone down there or not...

 

[swt_passenger]

Isn't the only service covered by them that's on electrified track Lymington-Brokenhurst? Southampton-Romsey-Salisbury isn't, for the most of the way at least.

The 'Hampshire Locals' refers to a fairly significant number of peak extra services that run solely in the DC area, I listed them in a post a while back, but search can't find it. :cry: Stuff like this, which may not be exactly up to date, this is from 2009:

0500 Portsmouth Hbr - Basingstoke 6.159
0655 Basingstoke - Southampton Ctrl 3.159
0702 Eastleigh -Portsmouth Hbr 2.158
0751 Southampton Ctrl - Portsmouth Hbr 3.159
0805 Portsmouth Hbr - Basingstoke 2.158
0933 Portsmouth Hbr - Southampton Ctrl 3.159
1624 Basingstoke - Portsmouth Hbr 6.159
1638 Winchester - Totton 2.158
1703 Portsmouth Hbr - Fareham 2.158
1724 Basingstoke - Southampton Ctrl 3.159
1817 Southampton Ctrl - Winchester 2.158
1905 Winchester - Southampton Ctrl 2.158
0030 Eastleigh - Portsmouth Hbr 2 158

If they were all replaced by EMUs a reasonable number of DMUs, about half a dozen maybe, would become available for use elsewhere, but that doesn't seem to be the plan at all.