...and that's exactly the issue being discussed here, isn't it? I'm sure no-one would disagree that hi-vis should be worn when appropriate (i.e. when on or about the line), even if that detracts from the 1950s (or whatever era) image. The GCR certainly discourages staff from wearing hi-vis when it's not necessary, but clearly the S&T chap wearing hi-vis trousers isn't going to drop them the moment he steps onto the platform, and no-one's going to lose any sleep there (though they probably would if he did drop his trousers...!) - the problem is with the punters who don't need hi-vis because they've got no authority to go on or about the line (and are trying to somehow stand out from the crowd), or worse those who think it gives them some sort of authority to go lineside, or even worse those who thinks it makes them train-proof so can wander about on or about the line without a care in the world.
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HIGH-VIS VEST - only a passenger for heavens sake!
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I agree, I've seen occasions where railtour participants will put on a hi-viz seemingly on the assumption that gives them the right to go down a ramp or whatever, usually embracing the classic "hi-viz but no safety boots" look... (I've actually I've seen photographers run along platforms wearing a hi-viz, fair play to them for not going down the ramp but seriously why does one need to wear a hi-viz for this?). Sometimes wearing the logo of a rail operator which could be interpreted as staff impersonation.
As for the wearing of hi-vizs by staff, the operator I volunteer with has a policy of staff not wearing hi-vizs while walking through the train (where of course it is not needed). Occasionally you hear the argument that a hi-viz helps identify workers to passengers. When it comes to things like stewarding though there's really no need for a hi-viz to be worn if there is a official uniform, that way passengers can easily tell who is staff.
Regarding the wearing of a hi-viz on the platform I think it should depend on the nature of one's job; if your job requires you to be moving between track and platform then it probably makes sense to leave the vest on, if anything there's the risk you'll forget to put it back on, apart from wasting time taking it on and off. On the other hand if you're job requires you to hold a door for boarding/disembarking passengers in the middle of a platform then I guess there's no real need for a hi-viz.
PFX
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Phew! I was getting worried there.
As for photographers with vests, a similar discussion on another forum mentioned a few mainline stations providing vests to people who have permission to take photos which, I suppose, prevents them being questioned by station staff every 10 minutes. That said, I'd imagine they have some sort of branding on them such as 'visitor'.
The Decapod
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As well as being a heritage railway volunteer, I'm also a volunteer with a conservation group unconnected with railways. When working with that group we're expected to wear the group's own issue high-viz vest, with logo on, at all times, even if we're just clearing up twigs! I have no problem with that.
Schnellzug
Established Member
"when on about the railway" meaning not on the platform, either in the course of duty, or if you have a lineside pass. Not when you're on a train as a passenger, or when you're standing on a platform as a passenger, surely.
I would say though that on a busy platform in peak time (i.e. with commuters in suits) then a yellow hivis does stand out. I overheard that SET had a policy that station staff wore yellow and trains staff wear orange.
Schnellzug
Established Member
That seems to be policy on FGW, platform staff have yellow flurorescent jackets with First on them, which I suppose is helpful for trains crews and passengers.
As far as I am concerned whilst on duty be it in the mess room, in a long tunnel on a ballast turn, or proceeding a propelling movement of a 65 SLU train from the main onto a siding, my Hi Viz jacket is welded to my back.
I care not who says what, I am my own safety consultant and my satorial ellegeance is for me to decide what ppe I wear, and where I choose to wear it.
The case is that I have seen of staff sacked for not wearing such PPE when on and about the railway, and the incident happened at Milford some years ago.
You do what you want, I just adhere to the rule book to the letter, as I am concerned for the safety of myself and others.
I care not who says what, I am my own safety consultant and my satorial ellegeance is for me to decide what ppe I wear, and where I choose to wear it.
The case is that I have seen of staff sacked for not wearing such PPE when on and about the railway, and the incident happened at Milford some years ago.
You do what you want, I just adhere to the rule book to the letter, as I am concerned for the safety of myself and others.
Schnellzug
Established Member
If they're not railway employees or volunteers, though, and they're just passengers, or taking photos on the platform, that's whent it veers into pretentiousness or even could be construed as impersonating a member of staff.
Makes sense. Though this would probably be less of an issue on preserved lines, where smaller passenger numbers mean that it would be easy to spot a member of platform staff in a distinct uniform.
I completely agree, I think the issue is more with gricers putting on a hi-viz to get their photos when they've no business wearing one (I've seen it happen, sometimes wearing the hi-viz of an actual railway operator which raises more questions).
BestWestern
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I'd agree that Gricers and spotters have no need or business to be wearing a hi-viz when carrying out their hobby. If certain TOC's wish to supply them to people signing in at their stations then fair enough, but I'd have suggested using a different colour rather than industry standard orange, which is intended for safety critical staff and not visiting members of the public who have no need for PPE. Vests can be supplied in all manner of colours nowadays, so why not opt for something distinctive but non-orange?!
Of course, we must bear in mind that there are other industries where people require the use of orange vests and these people will sometimes find their way onto the railway when travelling to/from work etc, but they are generally easy to tell apart in my opinion. It would be rather arrogant to insist that nobody enters a station in a viz unless they are staff, but equally people who aren't authorised shouldn't be getting away with all sorts just because they've come 'armed' in orange! I do feel that there is a wider issue here of spotters pushing the boundaries, viz or no viz, and some of them need a bl**dy good telling.
Of course, we must bear in mind that there are other industries where people require the use of orange vests and these people will sometimes find their way onto the railway when travelling to/from work etc, but they are generally easy to tell apart in my opinion. It would be rather arrogant to insist that nobody enters a station in a viz unless they are staff, but equally people who aren't authorised shouldn't be getting away with all sorts just because they've come 'armed' in orange! I do feel that there is a wider issue here of spotters pushing the boundaries, viz or no viz, and some of them need a bl**dy good telling.
Exactly. I've seen cases where photographers actively ignore instructions from train operating staff do get back on the platform, etc. Some seem to think that they're "above" the majority. Sadly they're only doing a disservice to gricerdom in general. Even if they have a PTS it's my understanding that such a cert only entitles one to go on or near the line if their work requires them to, which precludes, I'm sure, simply going down to get a photo.
BestWestern
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Yes, even a PTS-qualified spotter has no business going lineside, though I'd like to think that somebody who works in the industry would know better! The charter and heritage operations always seem to be hanging by a thin thread, what with failures often causing chaos, then we had the recent multitude of lineside fires on the ECML caused by a pair of misbehaving kettles, and the ever-present gricer stupidity that we see all too often really doesn't help. A small minority of enthusiasts would do well to take a step back and consider the wider effects of their actions
Schnellzug
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Yes, the multitude that there were of those; compared with that, the virtually daily chaos caused by infrastucture failures/wires coming down/train failures due to diagrams being stretched beyond what's realistic pales into insignificance, doesn't it.... I think you mean Not Work Rail and East Coast eagerly siezing on one incident to use as a scapegoat. I wonder that they don't use that as an excuse next time the wires come down, again. "It was due to misbehaving Kettles at the beginning of September".Yes, even a PTS-qualified spotter has no business going lineside, though I'd like to think that somebody who works in the industry would know better! The charter and heritage operations always seem to be hanging by a thin thread, what with failures often causing chaos, then we had the recent multitude of lineside fires on the ECML caused by a pair of misbehaving kettles, and the ever-present gricer stupidity that we see all too often really doesn't help. A small minority of enthusiasts would do well to take a step back and consider the wider effects of their actions
PUFFINGBILLY
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My posting was to tell the tale of one amongst many sad silly twits who love wearing a high-vis vest in fear of being ignored or as compensation for being nobody. It has become the uniform of grown men who still hanker after wearing shorts and a school cap whilst writing down engine numbers at the platform end.
For those REALLY in peril, doing a proper job, or have been instructed to wear them I fully endorse the wearing of any garment that enhances visibility and contributes to safety.
For those REALLY in peril, doing a proper job, or have been instructed to wear them I fully endorse the wearing of any garment that enhances visibility and contributes to safety.
scotsman
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Wee hint for you all - if you see someone in hi-vis in a station/lineside and the vest doesn't have any poppers or velcro along the top or sides, then the chances are that they're not staff
BestWestern
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I wasn't condemning mainline steam but merely pointing out that it is not currently top of the list of favourites with the powers that be, and a serious casualty or even a fatality due to some idiot doing what they know they shouldn't will not help the situation. As for the ECML, so far as I am aware, there were lineside fires in several different locations which were attributed to a steam locomotive movement, and abject chaos was caused as a direct result. If you know better than the railway press then perhaps you should contact them and advise them of whatever it is that you know?!
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Hydro
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ralphchadkirk
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GearJammer
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Maybe there should be more control over who gets Orange Hi-viz vests/clotheing, i was under the impression that Orange hi-viz was only used on the railways but you can (it seems) be able to pick them up anywhere these days, with yellow being for other industries, ive also seen black, blue and pink hi viz!
The whole topic reminds me of a cartoon that was in the back of a Truck & Driver magazine once, the page was covered with blokes lined up wearing suits and yellow Hi-Viz vests all poseing for a picture, right in the middle was some fella wearing the full on Army/commando cammoflage gear....... he stuck out like a soar thumb! The caption under the cartoon just said 'These days you got more chance of sticking out in a crowd for NOT wearing a Hi viz vest'.
While it was tounge in cheek it is true, walk round a railway yard with an orange vest on, or a building site with a yellow one on and see how quick you get noticed, then take the vests off in both places and then see how quick you get noticed.... bet you get noticed quicker without one on
The whole topic reminds me of a cartoon that was in the back of a Truck & Driver magazine once, the page was covered with blokes lined up wearing suits and yellow Hi-Viz vests all poseing for a picture, right in the middle was some fella wearing the full on Army/commando cammoflage gear....... he stuck out like a soar thumb! The caption under the cartoon just said 'These days you got more chance of sticking out in a crowd for NOT wearing a Hi viz vest'.
While it was tounge in cheek it is true, walk round a railway yard with an orange vest on, or a building site with a yellow one on and see how quick you get noticed, then take the vests off in both places and then see how quick you get noticed.... bet you get noticed quicker without one on
PUFFINGBILLY
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STOP PRESS
If walking your dog along a seafront promenade devoid of almost any other person and the weather is calm with no indication of a hurricane brewing you MUST wear a bright yellow new high-vis vest.
The sad prat wearing this garment stood out like a sore thumb making a right fool of himself.
If walking your dog along a seafront promenade devoid of almost any other person and the weather is calm with no indication of a hurricane brewing you MUST wear a bright yellow new high-vis vest.
The sad prat wearing this garment stood out like a sore thumb making a right fool of himself.
table38
Established Member
Some tradesmen (like builders etc) seem to wear them when walking around, probably for the fact that hi-viz jackets are normally quite warm for the cold weather, or they can't be bothered to put on a different one.
Took me a while to find a jacket which was like my hi-viz one, and it's still not as good.
Took me a while to find a jacket which was like my hi-viz one, and it's still not as good.
Maybe there should be more control over who gets Orange Hi-viz vests/clotheing, i was under the impression that Orange hi-viz was only used on the railways but you can (it seems) be able to pick them up anywhere these days, with yellow being for other industries, ive also seen black, blue and pink hi viz!
While it was tounge in cheek it is true, walk round a railway yard with an orange vest on, or a building site with a yellow one on and see how quick you get noticed, then take the vests off in both places and then see how quick you get noticed.... bet you get noticed quicker without one on
This has been discussed on other threads
I work in industry and many manufacturing plants have different colours for contractors to show that they are authorised to work for instance orange Hi viz with Inducted contractor printed on the back. It really is not possible to dicate colours, many Europeans road workers use orange
I once had an argument on a site when traversing a lorry yard with a pallet truck and large pallecon box. Two of us had hi viz jackets, the other in the middle didnt. I said to the shunter that if he couldnt see both of us and the palecon, then the guy in the middle not having a jacket made no difference!!
All our working platform and signal staff, and guards other than drivers at Stapleford wear hi viz blue jackets with "FSMR Staff" printed clearly on the back
Drivers are enocouraged not to wear hi viz jackets in public operation due to photography.
Good point. In fact it's my understanding that wearing a non-popper/velcro one on the lineside is actually considered a hazard in terms of it potentially getting caught in something.
Hydro
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It's not actually particularly relevant, as it's ONLY vests that have poppers. Bodywarmers, jackets, coats, overalls and fleeces don't; they're all perfectly kosher.
Vests with studs are good for annoying people though, one good yank and that's them popping it all back together like a fabric jigsaw.
A friend of mine who works for NR has confirmed in the past that no HiVis is permitted on platforms, it is only to be worn whilst lineside. Also orange HiVis is the only permitted colour. Even outside contractors are not supposed to waer HiVis on site let alone public - this begs the question of how on earth do you police this.
As a hobby I am into motorsport - there the only permitted HiVis colour on domestic events is orange. On international events one job is required to wear yellow HiVis.
As a hobby I am into motorsport - there the only permitted HiVis colour on domestic events is orange. On international events one job is required to wear yellow HiVis.
battledroid
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One trip to the ELR on a gala day will crack you up, hundreds of people everywhere wearing all manner of orange PPE, ranging from ones they found in Ikea to 35 year old BR mini-vests devoid of all colour and reflective properties.
It's a real joke, and IMHO after a run-in with a rather overzealous gricer at the ELR it has really bought me to the conclusion that the sheer majority of "spotters" at said gala really had nothing to do with the rail industry whatsoever other than a passing hobby and the little orange vest was a last ditch attempt at making them look like a part of an industry they never quite made it into.
I spend every minute of my working life head-to-toe in bright orange, and I look forwards to Galas and similar preserved events as an opportunity to ditch the hi-vis and wind it down a touch for a change.
Stark and rather frank fact is that on your average preserved location, there is little to no benefit in wearing one. There isn't likely to be a road railer running back and fourth and it's not likely to be 5am and dark.
It's a real joke, and IMHO after a run-in with a rather overzealous gricer at the ELR it has really bought me to the conclusion that the sheer majority of "spotters" at said gala really had nothing to do with the rail industry whatsoever other than a passing hobby and the little orange vest was a last ditch attempt at making them look like a part of an industry they never quite made it into.
I spend every minute of my working life head-to-toe in bright orange, and I look forwards to Galas and similar preserved events as an opportunity to ditch the hi-vis and wind it down a touch for a change.
Stark and rather frank fact is that on your average preserved location, there is little to no benefit in wearing one. There isn't likely to be a road railer running back and fourth and it's not likely to be 5am and dark.
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