'Big man' vs Sam Main incident (final decision: no charges for either)

[Tin Rocket]

Only just watched this video and I think that the behaviour of the inspector was a disgrace.
Fair enough, the lad shouldn't have been on the train without the correct ticket and the ticket inspector had a right to tell him to leave the train, but surely it was obvious that constantly saying "off" was not going to encourage him to leave the train.
As for the so called "big man" there is absolutely no way that he should have been allowed to physically push someone off the train, the lad had done something wrong but this offence does not warrant somebody being pushed off the train.
It shows a huge lack of proffesionalism on Scotrail trains, (the conductor watching this happen and seemingly happy about this happening). I hope that this inspector and "big man" are dealt with correctly.

The scotrail guard sems to handle the situation in an amatuerish way by shifting the onus onto the other passengers by saying he's not bothered and that they will sit there all night and the other passengers will moan,if he was quite happy to sit there why not summon the BTP or local police to handle the situation or meet them at his destination?if he was happy to sit there all night as he was being paid why then change his mind and let the big man eject the lad?the lad gives the impression he was acting like a foul mouthed scrote but it just seems to be handled unprofessionally and its understandable why he wanted to collect his belongings.

 

[bnm]

Is it not just possible the the BTP have proceeded with charging Mr Pollock based on all the evidence and victim/accused/witness statements? And also in conference with the PF to weigh up whether it is in the public interest and whether a conviction would be likely? Not just on what is seen on a few minutes of phonecam footage.

Oh but hang on, in the eyes of many here on this forum, BTP are useless and don't know how to apply the law.

:roll:

 

[The Decapod]

I'm glad the big fat oaf has been charged with assault. It's up to the courts now to decide if he's guilty.

Well, the law would have permitted the guard to chuck the kid off the train for it...

But the law wouldn't allow the guard to cause an injury to the passenger they're ejecting.

 

[90019]

Just spotted this http://uk.news.yahoo.com/fare-dodger-assault-man-charged.html

makes interesting reading

Especially this bit.

Student Sam Mains also faces prosecution after he was reported under section 38 of the Criminal Justice and Licensing Act Scotland, which covers threatening and abusive behaviour, and with trespass. He has yet to be formally charged.

 

[yorkie]

The Decapod - you wont win many friends here with ridiculous comments like that, and I am saddened that anyone is on the side of the chav.

Clearly the chav turns round, fists clenched, to hit the big bloke, who stops him by holding his arms, given that the chav had demonstrated clear intent to assault at that point, the big bloke was entirely in his rights to ensure that the chav was ejected firmly from the train.

The chav had no right to attempt to force his way back on the train and I'd have gladly helped in preventing him doing so.

I'm with the vast majority in wishing Mr Pollock well, and hoping that Mr Main is found guilty. Any other outcome is a travesty and will bring shame on the legal system in this country and society as a whole.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Especially this bit.

Yep look forward to see the reports of him being charged over the next few days

 

[Tin Rocket]

What is the scotrail position on this?have they given public backing to the "big man?will they be paying the "big man's" legal fees?

 

[scotsman]

The scotrail guard sems to handle the situation in an amatuerish way by shifting the onus onto the other passengers by saying he's not bothered and that they will sit there all night and the other passengers will moan,if he was quite happy to sit there why not summon the BTP or local police to handle the situation or meet them at his destination?if he was happy to sit there all night as he was being paid why then change his mind and let the big man eject the lad?the lad gives the impression he was acting like a foul mouthed scrote but it just seems to be handled unprofessionally and its understandable why he wanted to collect his belongings.

No, no and no. The line "I'll sit here all night" is a fairly common one - i.e. By your petty behaviour you are causing me no inconvenience, however you are to your fellow passengers.

 

[bb21]

I have yet to see any proof or medical evidence that he was drunk yet people continue to ascertain he was drunk. I am led to believe he was a diabetic that had a drink.

If he knew he had a condition himself and was likely to act in such a manner, then he should not have had that drink. Would he have behaved in such a manner had he not had that drink? He needs to accept complete responsibility for his own behaviour.

when everybody sits by and does nothing, it will be a sorry day for this country,

Yes, totally. This is part of the reason why this country is heading for a downward moral slide.

So the youtube footage could do for the "big man"??,if i were in his boots i would'nt be best pleased about it being filmed and uploaded for the world to see.

The guy was questioned by many and it had been recommended to him that the video be taken off youtube. He declined. The video will no doubt be used as part of the evidence and will now have potential consequences for a person who acted in the best interests of the general public. It just shows what an immature course of action it was.

 

[Tin Rocket]

No, no and no. The line "I'll sit here all night" is a fairly common one - i.e. By your petty behaviour you are causing me no inconvenience, however you are to your fellow passengers.

Would he have been tought to use this line or take this approach in his guards training??i work lineside so dont have any knowledge on the training of people who deal with general public like guards so would be interesting to know.

 

[the sniper]

But the law wouldn't allow the guard to cause an injury to the passenger they're ejecting.

It would as long as it was deemed 'reasonable force'. If the big man had been the guard, I personally believe the level of force used would have been reasonable.

The problem is the big man had no legal authority to touch Sam Main, so whether the force was reasonable is irrelevant, as it's Common Assault.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

No, no and no. The line "I'll sit here all night" is a fairly common one - i.e. By your petty behaviour you are causing me no inconvenience, however you are to your fellow passengers.

Yep I use it among other things and to be fair 75% of the time it works

 

[jon0844]

It can be hard for anyone in authority to do anything these days, as they're ridiculed and goaded by the scotes - and then undermined by their managers and colleagues. No wonder some people end up having to give empty threats, such that had Big Man not intervened, who knows what would have happened.

I personally think that eventually, Mr Main would have got his way as the passengers would lose their patience and want to get the train moving - another victory for someone being abusive and threatening.

As a result of this more likely outcome, most guards and RPIs seem to back off if it looks like they'll have a lot of trouble (which then makes people think they're picking on the easy targets). Heck, you even see the police doing that now, especially the forces that introduced the ridiculous points system that encouraged going after the easy targets.

We need to swing things back into favour of the people who abide by the law, and enforce the law, not to those who ignore it and act as if they're above it.

 

[yorkie]

If he knew he had a condition himself and was likely to act in such a manner, then he should not have had that drink. Would he have behaved in such a manner had he not had that drink? He needs to accept complete responsibility for his own behaviour.

Absolutely, but there's a significant number of people, who are in the minority but their actions are felt by all of us, who simply do not believe in the concept of 'responsibility'. They also have a rather strange view on 'respect', where everyone has to respect them but they have to respect absolutely no-one. It's a type of behaviour that is on the increase. You see it in this video, and some of us have to see it on a daily basis. To those who don't I say: you are very lucky.

I personally think that eventually, Mr Main would have got his way as the passengers would lose their patience and want to get the train moving - another victory for someone being abusive and threatening.

Oh absolutely. And Mr Main and his supporters will of course be in shock that he wasn't allowed to get his way and will be outraged by it. They're in the minority but they're very vocal.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

It can be hard for anyone in authority to do anything these days, as they're ridiculed and goaded by the scotes - and then undermined by their managers and colleagues. No wonder some people end up having to give empty threats, such that had Big Man not intervened, who knows what would have happened.

I personally think that eventually, Mr Main would have got his way as the passengers would lose their patience and want to get the train moving - another victory for someone being abusive and threatening.

As a result of this more likely outcome, most guards and RPIs seem to back off if it looks like they'll have a lot of trouble (which then makes people think they're picking on the easy targets). Heck, you even see the police doing that now, especially the forces that introduced the ridiculous points system that encouraged going after the easy targets.

We need to swing things back into favour of the people who abide by the law, and enforce the law, not to those who ignore it and act as if they're above it.

What chance do with have when the laws of this twisted country protect the people who are the cause of the problems (getting fcuked off with the way TrainCrew, like myself get treated by the scroates)

 

[Tin Rocket]

I'm glad the big fat oaf has been charged with assault. It's up to the courts now to decide if he's guilty.

But the law wouldn't allow the guard to cause an injury to the passenger they're ejecting.

Do you think "big man" would have stepped in and tried to eject the lad if the lad was 6'6'',15 stone and looked as though he could handle himself??i wager the guard and the "big man" would have waited for the law to attend.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Do you think "big man" would have stepped in and tried to eject the lad if the lad was 6'6'',15 stone and looked as though he could handle himself??i wager the guard and the "big man" would have waited for the law to attend.

who knows, I can say from experience (to my surprise) that it does not really matter, you either have morals or you do not

 

[jon0844]

What chance do with have when the laws of this twisted country protect the people who are the cause of the problems (getting fcuked off with the way TrainCrew, like myself get treated by the scroates)

I just hope that following the riots, where we saw some proper punishments (which, of course, some people then said were a bit too harsh) that we begin to make changes that will put an end, or at least stop the growth, of this anti-social behaviour where people show no care or respect for anyone else.

I hope the outcome of this case will be a positive one, or we'll be going backwards again.

The riots did prove one thing; a lot of people who thought the hands-off approach was a good thing suddenly changed their mind when it was their high street being wrecked and their houses being burnt down - and their friends and family being mugged. Funny that!

A lot of people who haven't experienced the problems do seem to act as if they don't exist, so they need a little bit of educating too.

Do you think "big man" would have stepped in and tried to eject the lad if the lad was 6'6'',15 stone and looked as though he could handle himself??i wager the guard and the "big man" would have waited for the law to attend.

Could Big Man have known exactly how big Mr Main was when he was sitting down?

 

[Chew Chew]

I pondered on here last week that since Sam Main had complained to the police whether or not the police would be out to raise charges against him.

I feel personally, and probably erroneously, that if Sam Main hadn't have made his complaint against Alan Pollock and had just put it behind him then he wouldn't be facing charges either.

As I said then, Pollock will be remembered as the guy who came to the aid of an elderly guard who was being verbally abused by a youngster. Main will be remembered as a drunk who verbally abused an old man and initially thought it was great craic.

 

[Tav77]

Maybe the "big man" and the "wee chav" should take out a civil liberties case against the person who filmed it.

I presume they didn't give authorisation for the material to be made public, therefore, their human rights have been violated and as such should take action
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Main will be remembered as a drunk who verbally abused an old man and initially thought it was great craic.

Good luck in getting a job after university young man!

 

[Tin Rocket]

who knows, I can say from experience (to my surprise) that it does not really matter, you either have morals or you do not

I dont doubt the guard would have confronted him about no valid ticket,but i dont think big man would have tackled the situation in a phyisical manner and i dont think the guard would have allowed him to or been complicit in handling the lad in a physical manner,i hope i'm wrong.

 

[GarethW]

Chalk one more victory up to the thugs and scumbags.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I can't believe Mr Pollock has been charged. I think eventually it will get to the point where a handshake will be considered assault. OK, I may be exaggerating, but we need people like this, people who stand up for themselves and don't back down. This country is on a downward spiral when it comes to morals, it's quite sad really.

... therefore, their human rights have been violated and as such should take action

Oh dear.

 

[Tin Rocket]

I just hope that following the riots, where we saw some proper punishments (which, of course, some people then said were a bit too harsh) that we begin to make changes that will put an end, or at least stop the growth, of this anti-social behaviour where people show no care or respect for anyone else.

I hope the outcome of this case will be a positive one, or we'll be going backwards again.

The riots did prove one thing; a lot of people who thought the hands-off approach was a good thing suddenly changed their mind when it was their high street being wrecked and their houses being burnt down - and their friends and family being mugged. Funny that!

A lot of people who haven't experienced the problems do seem to act as if they don't exist, so they need a little bit of educating too.



Could Big Man have known exactly how big Mr Main was when he was sitting down?

i would say he would have sized him up before laying hands on him.

 

[Minilad]

Maybe the "big man" and the "wee chav" should take out a civil liberties case against the person who filmed it.

I presume they didn't give authorisation for the material to be made public, therefore, their human rights have been violated and as such should take action
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Good luck in getting a job after university young man!

What human right has been violated exactly

 

[jon0844]

I presume they didn't give authorisation for the material to be made public, therefore, their human rights have been violated and as such should take action

(You were joking, right?)

 

[Tav77]

(You were joking, right?)

So having images of you being published without your knowledge is ok is it?

 

[jon0844]

It's not illegal for someone to take photos or film in public, so tell me how it's a breach of human rights?

As soon as you step out your front door, there is sod all you can do to stop people seeing you in person, or capturing you on camera (whether that's a camera used by a member of the public or CCTV).

If you don't like it, change the law. Until then, drop the human rights nonsense. Human rights are about rather more important things in life.

 

[TheBigD]

...I think eventually it will get to the point where a handshake will be considered assault. OK, I may be exaggerating...

Our MP's are already on to it...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8485784.stm

 

[Old Timer]

What human right has been violated exactly

Be fair chaps, it took until post 711 until the inevitable happened.

I am surprised it has not come sooner to be honest.

Only a short time now until Hitller or the Nazis are mentioned.