Settle/Giggleswick

[IanD]

Hello

I'm planning a trip in the new year from MKC to take in the Cumbria Coast, Settle-Carlisle and Little North Western lines.

I would buy the Cumbria Day Ranger but that is too expensive for me and in any case cannot be purchased from RSH so I couldn't use my Tesco points.

I've managed to get cheap advance tickets that will get me to Ribblehead and back from Giggleswick and will get a ticket from Ribblehead to Settle to fill in the gap and stroll from Settle to Giggleswick for the return as I should have about 2 hours.

What is the best ticket to get from Ribblehead to ensure that I have continuity of journey so that if any of my trains are delayed, I don't end up stranded anywhere or at least if I do, the TOCs will (hopefully as NXEA ae not involved!) do something to help me out.

I read a leaflet years ago that tickets to/from Settle could be used to/from Giggleswick but can't find that info anywhere (it may have been in the WYMetro leaflet for the OAP winter special offer they run on the lines out of Skipton so may only apply to those tickets - no use to me just yet!). I don't understand the routeing guide yet but I can tell that Settle/Giggleswick are not classed as a Group.

I was thinking of a single from Ribblehead to Settle if the above is true. If not presumably it would have to be singles from Ribblehead to Long Preston and Long Preston to Giggleswick. NRE shows no singles available for the full route but a return fare of £32 -presumably that's a Cumbria Day Ranger.

Cheers

Cheers

 

[lyndhurst25]

I seem to remember reading (possibly in the Friends of the Settle Carlisle Line magazine) that Settle/Giggleswick, Horton/Clapham and possibly Ribblehead/Bentham are interchangable for Y-shaped journeys. This isn't mentioned in the routing guide though. Maybe it is/was in "The Manual" but mere mortals aren't allowed access to that holy text...

 

[34D]

I've managed to get cheap advance tickets that will get me to Ribblehead and back from Giggleswick and will get a ticket from Ribblehead to Settle to fill in the gap and stroll from Settle to Giggleswick for the return as I should have about 2 hours.

What is the best ticket to get from Ribblehead to ensure that I have continuity of journey so that if any of my trains are delayed, I don't end up stranded anywhere or at least if I do, the TOCs will (hopefully as NXEA ae not involved!) do something to help me out.

To be 'covered' (on your train from Giggleswick to your home station, in the event of a delay from Ribblehead to Settle) you'll need a ticket that goes to Ribblehead to Giggleswick (or split combinations that equal the same) leaving (in the absence of a published interchange time for Giggleswick) at least 5 minutes to change trains.

 

[John @ home]

To be sure that advice re availability in the event of delay is correct, I need to know more about the tickets you already have. Could you please state origin, destination, ticket type and times for each? Omit the date if you want to preserve privacy.

Thanks,
John

 

[IanD]

I haven't actually got the tickets yet as I haven't finalised the date but I've found that I can get an advance from Milton Keynes to Ribblehead via Barrow and Carlisle and then an advance from Giggleswick to Milton Keynes via Lancaster. Both Virgin WC&C. I can get a Settle (or even Ribblehead) to Milton Keynes advance for the same price but then I would need to hang around Hellifield for a long time so would prefer a break of journey option in Settle to visit a couple of pubs I haven't been in for a while (might end up in a taxi to Giggleswick!) and maybe get a bite to eat from Ye Olde Naked Man!

Any other ticket suggestions would be much appreciated.

 

[blackfive460]

Can't help with tickets but I would suggest avoiding the Naked Man! Very expensive for what you get.
If you fancy fish & chips, try the Shambles opposite or, if not, the cafe by the pedestrian crossing is a better bet.
The walk from Settle to Giggleswick takes about 20 minutes and there's a pub opposite the station (which I haven't been in for many years so have no idea if it's any good these days).

 

[OwlMan]

The manual states that Giggleswick & Settle tickets are valid from both stations

The Manual
Settle – Carlisle

Customers may use either Giggleswick or Settle as an alighting or boarding point where they hold tickets valid to or from either one of these two stations

 

[John @ home]

Thanks, IanD. In the last printed National Fares Manual NFM 98, valid 2 January - 17 May 2008, there was a local Easement:

Settle – Carlisle

Customers may use either Giggleswick or Settle as an alighting or boarding point where they hold tickets valid to or from either one of these two stations

This appeared on page 2 of Section M, Ticket Easements, of the East regional book. A copy of that Section M is attached.

This Easement seems to have disappeared from the public domain when the paper Fares Manuals were replaced by electronic documents, but I have no reason to believe that it has changed.

I suggest that you contact Northern and ask them:

• to confirm that the Easement is still in force
• if it is, to tell you where it may be found by a member of the public.

Please let us know what they say.

 

[IanD]

Thanks John - so if this easement applies would I be able to buy the second advance ticket from Settle rather than Giggleswick but just start from Giggleswick as it is and 'and connections' ticket and the connecting train in the itinary is not reservable. Or shoud I still get it from Giggleswick as I will hold a single ticket from Ribblehead to Settle?

I'll email Northern this afternoon.

(Re the Naked Man, unfortunately it's a family tradition that we visit it when in Settle started many years ago when we used to get stuck in horrenous traffic jams at Settle on the way to the Lakes/Morecambe. Have definitley found it pricey on my last few visits so may just opt for a cup of tea or a takeout biscuit!)

 

[John @ home]

if this easement applies would I be able to buy the second advance ticket from Settle rather than Giggleswick but just start from Giggleswick as it is and 'and connections' ticket and the connecting train in the itinary is not reservable.

When using a combination of tickets, in order to take advantage of the rule in Note 2 to Q&A 4 of the Advance Fares FAQs, my opinion is that, for the second and subsequent tickets, the origin should be the same as the destination printed on each previous ticket.

 

[34D]

but I have no reason to believe that it has changed.

http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/easements.pdf doesn't seem to list such an easement anymore - only settle easement is for WC drag diversions.

When using a combination of tickets, in order to take advantage of the rule in Note 2 to Q&A 4 of the Advance Fares FAQs, my opinion is that, for the second and subsequent tickets, the origin should be the same as the destination printed on each previous ticket.

I don't think that is strictly necessary, I hereby reproduce clause 19 of NRCOC:

19. Using a combination of tickets
You may use two or more tickets for one journey as long as together they cover the entire journey and one of the following applies:
(a) they are both Zonal Tickets (unless special conditions prohibit their use);
(b) the train you are in calls at a station where you change from one ticket to another; or
(c) one of the tickets is a Season Ticket (which for this purpose does not include Season Tickets or travel passes issued on behalf of a passenger transport executive or local authority) or a leisure travel pass, and the other ticket(s) is/are not.
You must comply with any restriction shown on the tickets relating to travel in the trains of a particular Train Company or Train Companies (see Condition 10).
If you do not comply with this Condition, you will be treated as having joined the train without a ticket and the relevant parts of Condition 2 or 4 will apply, either to the entire journey, or from the last station where the train stopped at which at least one of the tickets was valid.
For the purposes of this Condition, a “leisure travel pass” means any multi-journey ticket (excluding Season Tickets) valid for:
(i) at least 7 consecutive days; or
(ii) at least 3 days in a period of at least 7 consecutive days
and includes rover tickets, travel passes, fexipass tickets and Britrail passes.

Specifically, I would say that (if this easement does indeed apply) that tickets from say appleby-settle and then giggleswick-milton keynes cover the 'whole journey' as per the first sentance.

 

[IanD]

Thanks guys. Appreciate the advice.

 

[Buttsy]

As a heads up, a few years back I did Oxford - Giggleswick and walked to Horton via Settle. Took the train back to Settle and walked to Giggleswick and the walking time was about 10 mins from station to station on both legs. The biggest problem you'll have if you walk it is crossing the Kendal road outside Giggleswick station.

 

[IanD]

I've had a reply from Northern about the easement (see below). Just need to know where it's available in the public domain.

Northern Rail 238995

07 January 2012

Our Reference NR/ 238995

Dear IanD

Thank you for your e-mail, which I received recently.

I am sorry that it's taken a while to reply. I can confirm that the easement whereby customers may use either Giggleswick or Settle as an alighting or boarding point where they hold tickets valid to or from either one of these two stations is still in force.

I have asked our marketing manager to look at how we advertise the easement.


Regards


Paul
Customer Relations
FREEPOST RLSL-ABEC-BGUU
Northern Customer Relations
First Floor, The Travel Centre
City Railway Station
Leeds
LS1 4DY

Tel 0845 00 00 125
Fax 0113 2479 059

 

[34D]

I've had a reply from Northern about the easement (see below). Just need to know where it's available in the public domain.

http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/easements.pdf will tell you all you need.

 

[lyndhurst25]

http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/easements.pdf will tell you all you need.

Not in this, and I imagine in quite a few other "secret" local easement cases, it won't. Since the paper Fares Manuals ceased to be available this information is no longer in the public domain.

 

[IanD]

Not in this, and I imagine in quite a few other "secret" local easement cases, it won't. Since the paper Fares Manuals ceased to be available this information is no longer in the public domain.

Which is what 34D himsefl pointed out on 18th Decemeber

 

[34D]

Not in this, and I imagine in quite a few other "secret" local easement cases, it won't. Since the paper Fares Manuals ceased to be available this information is no longer in the public domain.

Hmm I apologise. Are the pair of stations listed as an interchange?

 

[IanD]

Not anwywhere that I can find - hence my original post. I could recall seeing some publicity about the easement a few years ago but could not track anything down on t'internet.

 

[John @ home]

http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/easements.pdf will tell you all you need.

Unfortunately not.

In addition to Easements published in that section of the National Routeing Guide, there are other easements which used to appear in the regional Ticket Easements sections of the printed National Fares Manual. When the printed National Fares Manuals ceased in 2008, these local easements appear to have fallen out of the public domain, probably by accident. It seems that at present they appear only in the internal railway industry document The Manual.

The local easement

Settle – Carlisle

Customers may use either Giggleswick or Settle as an alighting or boarding point where they hold tickets valid to or from either one of these two stations

appeared in the National Fares Manual for East region, and it is good to have confirmation from Northern that it is still in force.

It was recently stated on this forum that there is a plan to publish the Manual. I will write to an appropriate person in ATOC to suggest that a good start would be the incorporation of the local easements from the printed NFMs into the Easements section of the National Routeing Guide.

 

[34D]

It was recently stated on this forum that there is a plan to publish the Manual. I will write to an appropriate person in ATOC to suggest that a good start would be the incorporation of the local easements from the printed NFMs into the Easements section of the National Routeing Guide.

Very good to hear. Out of interest, are there any negative easements in this non-public document? Ie anything to catch us out?

 

[John @ home]

are there any negative easements in this non-public document?

See post #8 in this thread.