Friends & Family Railcard - TFL discounts

[BrianTheLion]

I'm so pleased I found this forum. I've been extremely confused trying to fathom out Tfl's Oyster biased website!

My group of 2 adults and 1 child (13 yr old) will be in london for a long weekend in January.
I'm a holder of a Friends & Family railcard.

In London I need travel between central london and Edmonton (zone 4) - according to the Oyster page and the Travelcard page this should cost me £7.70 & £3.20 for the child ticket.

Am I right in thinking that if I go to the mainline ticket office in Euston I can but discounted 1 day travelcards with my F&F railcard?

If so does the discount apply to the whole group or is it restricted to 1 child per adult?

Does the discount apply only to off peak travelcards? and can the discount be used during the week too? i.e monday morning after 9.30am?

Any advice would be gratefully appreciated because Boris and his pals haven't exactly made the website easy to follow for holders of this type of railcard!

 

[wintonian]

I'm so pleased I found this forum. I've been extremely confused trying to fathom out Tfl's Oyster biased website!

My group of 2 adults and 1 child (13 yr old) will be in london for a long weekend in January.
I'm a holder of a Friends & Family railcard.

In London I need travel between central london and Edmonton (zone 4) - according to the Oyster page and the Travelcard page this should cost me £7.70 & £3.20 for the child ticket.

Am I right in thinking that if I go to the mainline ticket office in Euston I can but discounted 1 day travelcards with my F&F railcard?

If so does the discount apply to the whole group or is it restricted to 1 child per adult?

Does the discount apply only to off peak travelcards? and can the discount be used during the week too? i.e monday morning after 9.30am?

Any advice would be gratefully appreciated because Boris and his pals haven't exactly made the website easy to follow for holders of this type of railcard!

Were pleased you found us too.

Oyster isn't my particular forte but the Oyster site does have this to say about Friends and Family railcards:

If you buy a Family & Friends Railcard you can buy discounted Off-Peak Day Travelcards to travel at anytime on weekends, Public Holidays and after 09:30 on Monday to Friday.

If you are travelling with children aged under 16 at anytime on weekends, Public Holidays and after 09:30 on Monday to Friday, you can get discounts for them too:

On Tube, DLR, London Overground and some National Rail services you can take four children aged under 11 for free
You can buy an Off-Peak Zone 1-9 Day Travelcard for £2 for up to four children aged 11-15 travelling with you (if they do not have an Oyster photocard). You must also have a valid ticket to travel

These discounted travelcards might have to be bought from the tube station but I am unsure if that is the case.

 

[LexyBoy]

I'm so pleased I found this forum. I've been extremely confused trying to fathom out Tfl's Oyster biased website!

Welcome!

My group of 2 adults and 1 child (13 yr old) will be in london for a long weekend in January.
I'm a holder of a Friends & Family railcard.

In London I need travel between central london and Edmonton (zone 4) - according to the Oyster page and the Travelcard page this should cost me £7.70 & £3.20 for the child ticket.

Am I right in thinking that if I go to the mainline ticket office in Euston I can but discounted 1 day travelcards with my F&F railcard?

The fares you quote are undiscounted 2012 fares. National Rail enquiries isn't giving next years fares yet but for this year they are £5.30 adult and £2.00 child with a F&F Railcard.

You'll be able to buy these tickets from any National Rail station, either from a ticket office or ticket machine.

If so does the discount apply to the whole group or is it restricted to 1 child per adult?

The F&F railcard gives a discount for any group containing 1-4 adults and 1-4 children. Everyone needs to travel together (i.e. you're not allowed to travel without the Railcard holder in your group, or in a group which is not made up as described earlier).

Does the discount apply only to off peak travelcards? and can the discount be used during the week too? i.e monday morning after 9.30am?

Only Off-Peak Travelcards; discount valid whenever the Travelcard is valid (i.e. from 0930).

 

[wintonian]

MikeWH's site might be of use to you.

http://www.oyster-rail.org.uk/

 

[bb21]

In London I need travel between central london and Edmonton (zone 4) - according to the Oyster page and the Travelcard page this should cost me £7.70 & £3.20 for the child ticket.

The discounted rate for the London Zones 1-6 Off-Peak Day Travelcard is £5.30 Adult and £2 Child. I'm not sure where you got the quoted figures from.

Am I right in thinking that if I go to the mainline ticket office in Euston I can but discounted 1 day travelcards with my F&F railcard?

I believe you can also buy them from London Underground ticket offices, and some ticket machines, although you cannot obtain discounts for LU single fares.

If so does the discount apply to the whole group or is it restricted to 1 child per adult?

Minimum of 1 Adult 1 Child and maximum of 4 Adults 4 Children, so 2A1C is absolutely fine.

Does the discount apply only to off peak travelcards? and can the discount be used during the week too? i.e monday morning after 9.30am?

Off-Peak Day Travelcards are valid on weekdays after 0930 so they can be purchased with a discount.

 

[Platform 1]

Welcome to the forum.

Yes; F&F discounts are available - the TFL websilte would suggest from any tube office and some National Rail i.e Euston etc.

Off peak only (after 0930 Mon-Fri and all day at weekends).

It also says:

You can buy an Off-Peak Zone 1-9 Day Travelcard for £2 for up to four children aged 11-15 travelling with you (if they do not have an Oyster photocard). You must also have a valid ticket to travel.

It seems this would cost less than you quoted.

My only other suggestion to you would be that you buy pay as you go Oyster cards.

I live outsite London and only visit for railway trips, however, I am always very grateful to be able to walk past the enormous ques of people.

Adult ones cost £5 + credit I believe and can be sent to you.

11-15 ones cost £5 but this is for credit (so the card itself is free really) and must be picked up from a travel info centre in London. There's one at Euston.

Oyster fares are also cheaper and the cards will last "forever" or until the child is 16 for that one.

Hope this helps.

 

[LexyBoy]

The discounted rate for the London Zones 1-6 Off-Peak Day Travelcard is £5.30 Adult and £2 Child. I'm not sure where you got the quoted figures from.

They are the paper Z1-4 Travelcard fares for 2012 (I believe the TfL site was showing next year's fares by default until recently).

As an addition to my earlier post, I should add that the F&F Railcard only gives a discount on Z1-6 Travelcards - the fares (£5.30/£2) refer to the Z1-6 Travelcard.

 

[bb21]

My only other suggestion to you would be that you buy pay as you go Oyster cards.

You cannot add a F&F Railcard discount onto a PAYG Oyster so the adult cap will not be reached until £8.00, rather than the paper version of £5.30. Child cap, though, is £1.30 rather than £2 for the paper version.

So it is not always more economical with a PAYG Oyster when travelling with kids, however as mentioned, the ability to walk straight past the ticket office is an advantage.

The OP needs to do the sums up himself.

They are the paper Z1-4 Travelcard fares for 2012 (I believe the TfL site was showing next year's fares by default until recently).

I see.

 

[BrianTheLion]

Thanks for all the prompt replies!!

I've done some calculations and based on current pricing info and using Travelcards instead of an oyster/child travelcard combo im going to save £16.20 over the 3 days im there.

A child oyster card isnt a realistic option because we're coming down from scotland and we really cant be too bothered with the whole photocard process for the sake of a short break.

 

[Platform 1]

...we're coming down from scotland...

I feel I must suggest East Coast over Virgin if you haven't already booked tickets - though I don't know about the price difference at the moment.

East Coast do have a ticket sale starting on the 19th if this is of help.

£10 Standard
£25 First

 

[All Line Rover]

I feel I must suggest East Coast over Virgin if you haven't already booked tickets - though I don't know about the price difference at the moment.

East Coast do have a ticket sale starting on the 19th if this is of help.

£10 Standard
£25 First

It depends where they're coming from - if it's quicker to travel via Glasgow on Virgin, travel via Glasgow! East Coast are unlikely to have sale tickets on the once a day service to/from Glasgow, as it's generally quite busy.

 

[Platform 1]

IMO I would happily take twice as long and change multiple times to avoid a pendolino.

 

[IanD]

Only Off-Peak Travelcards; discount valid whenever the Travelcard is valid (i.e. from 0930).

Accoring to 2012 section of the the TFL website, the discounted travel card can only be purchased from 10am although normal off peak travelcards are available from 9:30.

Also, it says you can buy the discounted travelcards as long as the F&F railcard holder has a valid ticket. Doesn't say it has to be a travelcard.

 

[All Line Rover]

Accoring to 2012 section of the the TFL website, the discounted travel card can only be purchased from 10am although normal off peak travelcards are available from 9:30.

Also, it says you can buy the discounted travelcards as long as the F&F railcard holder has a valid ticket. Doesn't say it has to be a travelcard.

The 2011 section of the website says the same thing - it's nonsense. The ticket is valid after 09:30am and can be purchased at any time! Even the day before!

 

[LexyBoy]

Accoring to 2012 section of the the TFL website, the discounted travel card can only be purchased from 10am although normal off peak travelcards are available from 9:30.

Also, it says you can buy the discounted travelcards as long as the F&F railcard holder has a valid ticket. Doesn't say it has to be a travelcard.

Indeed- the Railcard holder doesn't need the same ticket or discount as others in the party- so if they already hold a Season ticket they don't need an extra one (makes sense!)

Regarding the time restrictions- there is a minimum fare (or ban possibly, can't remember) for F&F tickets before 10am for travel wholly in the Network area; this never used to apply to Travelcards - news to me if that's changing next year.

 

[BrianTheLion]

I feel I must suggest East Coast over Virgin if you haven't already booked tickets - though I don't know about the price difference at the moment.

East Coast do have a ticket sale starting on the 19th if this is of help.

£10 Standard
£25 First

Thanks for the info but I already knew. I managed to get Glasgow - Euston for £15.70 (1+1 with F&F) and the way back I got an EC train back via edinburgh for £22.00 so I was happy with under £40 for the return.

My brother lives in newcastle though so he's the 2nd adult I mentioned earlier, he was lucky enough to get the £10 fares. It was a nice change to go on the east coast site and see all direct trains priced at a tenner!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Regarding the time restrictions- there is a minimum fare (or ban possibly, can't remember) for F&F tickets before 10am for travel wholly in the Network area; this never used to apply to Travelcards - news to me if that's changing next year.

Mike from http://www.oyster-rail.org.uk/ confirmed that

On a normal working day you cannot use the railcard at all in the morning peak.

I'm a bit miffed at the fact that a single ticket from Edmonton to KX will cost me £6 when I'm hoping to get a zones 1-6 1 day t/card for less than that! But then I suppose that's the power of the railcard for you!

 

[All Line Rover]

Regarding the time restrictions- there is a minimum fare (or ban possibly, can't remember) for F&F tickets before 10am for travel wholly in the Network area; this never used to apply to Travelcards - news to me if that's changing next year.

I doubt it - the website said exactly the same thing this year! It's obviously incorrect, as we frequently use a Family Railcard on the London Underground just after 09:30am and aren't questioned about it. We also buy the tickets before 09:30am!

 

[BrianTheLion]

I doubt it - the website said exactly the same thing this year! It's obviously incorrect, as we frequently use a Family Railcard on the London Underground just after 09:30am and aren't questioned about it. We also buy the tickets before 09:30am!

Just out of curiousity, I assume if you buy a travel card at a railway station office that its printed on normal orange rail ticket card? Out of your experience do these tend to be more reliable than the ones issued from underground machines?

The previous times ive just underground issued cards they've always stopped working after 4-5 times being put through the barriers!

 

[Platform 1]

I've never had one that works but I've only had a few.

 

[BrianTheLion]

I've never had one that works but I've only had a few.

I'm just trying to avoid the scenario where the 3 of us are all standing to be allowed through manually whilst having to show our railcard aswell... Better just hope the stations arent busy... lol

 

[All Line Rover]

Just out of curiousity, I assume if you buy a travel card at a railway station office that its printed on normal orange rail ticket card? Out of your experience do these tend to be more reliable than the ones issued from underground machines?

The previous times ive just underground issued cards they've always stopped working after 4-5 times being put through the barriers!

Generally, we buy our Travelcards from a National Rail ticket machine. Mainly to avoid the queues at the London Underground ticket office, but yes, they are also more hard-wearing. You'd have to make about 20 journeys within a day to wear out an LU Travelcard, though!

(Also, if you use a "disabled" ticket barrier, you only have to put one ticket through the barrier to allow everyone in. That way you have some spare tickets to use on the barriers if one ticket fails).

 

[MikeWh]

Regarding the time restrictions- there is a minimum fare (or ban possibly, can't remember) for F&F tickets before 10am for travel wholly in the Network area; this never used to apply to Travelcards - news to me if that's changing next year.

I think you're confusing it with the 16-25 railcard which has a minimum fare before 10am except during July and August.

Mike from http://www.oyster-rail.org.uk/ confirmed that

That would be me.

I'm a bit miffed at the fact that a single ticket from Edmonton to KX will cost me £6 when I'm hoping to get a zones 1-6 1 day t/card for less than that! But then I suppose that's the power of the railcard for you!

That's the cost for wanting to mingle with the commuter traffic in the morning.

Just out of curiousity, I assume if you buy a travel card at a railway station office that its printed on normal orange rail ticket card? Out of your experience do these tend to be more reliable than the ones issued from underground machines?

The previous times ive just underground issued cards they've always stopped working after 4-5 times being put through the barriers!

Yes, NR issued travelcards are usually on orange stock. I've never had one stop working before, although I'm aware of people who have in the past. The last one I had went through at least ten lots of barriers with no problems.

 

[island]

I'm a bit miffed at the fact that a single ticket from Edmonton to KX will cost me £6 when I'm hoping to get a zones 1-6 1 day t/card for less than that! But then I suppose that's the power of the railcard for you!

Edmonton Green to Kings Cross is £4.60 peak on Oyster. If you are only going on paper tickets and won't use zones 5 and 6, get a 1-4 Anytime Day Travelcard for £10.

 

[BrianTheLion]

Edmonton Green to Kings Cross is £4.60 peak on Oyster. If you are only going on paper tickets and won't use zones 5 and 6, get a 1-4 Anytime Day Travelcard for £10.

Thanks for the advice, I should have mentioned also that this is a one off journey for when I leave London.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Just out of curiosity... I've got to get from Edmonton Green to catch a train from Kings Cross at 9.30.

I'm still debating the best option for both cost and time constraints. There appears to be a lot of trains from Edmonton Green to Seven Sisters from 7am onwards....

However I also have the option of getting the bus to Seven Sisters then switching to the Victoria line...

As this is going to be a single journey and my last in the capital I assume it will be cheaper for me to use Rail then Tube as supposed to Bus then Tube?

 

[MikeWh]

Bus never gets combined with any sort of Rail journey. However, there is a premium for combining NR and TfL Rail on a journey including zone 1, so bus to Seven Sisters will be cheaper. Edmonton Green to Kings Cross St Pancras is £4.90 peak, bus is £1.30 then £3.10 for Seven Sisters to Kings Cross St Pancras.

 

[BrianTheLion]

Bus never gets combined with any sort of Rail journey. However, there is a premium for combining NR and TfL Rail on a journey including zone 1, so bus to Seven Sisters will be cheaper. Edmonton Green to Kings Cross St Pancras is £4.90 peak, bus is £1.30 then £3.10 for Seven Sisters to Kings Cross St Pancras.

I take it those are Adult National Rail through fares you're quoting above?

According to network rail its £6.00 single, and £3.00 for a child

I will be paying cash for the journey in question. (On Jan 31st) (No travelcard as Im leaving London on the morning in question)

If I take the bus I assume I need to pay 2 x £2.30 (as I wont have a child oyster card) and then pay £4.30 from Seven Sisters to KX + £2.10 for the 13 yr old? = total of £11?

So a single ticket bought at Edmonton Green for NR then Victoria line will save me £2?

I hope I've got my sums right!

 

[MikeWh]

I take it those are Adult National Rail through fares you're quoting above?

According to network rail its £6.00 single, and £3.00 for a child

I will be paying cash for the journey in question. (On Jan 31st) (No travelcard as Im leaving London on the morning in question)

If I take the bus I assume I need to pay 2 x £2.30 (as I wont have a child oyster card) and then pay £4.30 from Seven Sisters to KX + £2.10 for the 13 yr old? = total of £11?

So a single ticket bought at Edmonton Green for NR then Victoria line will save me £2?

I hope I've got my sums right!

Sorry, I've been in Oyster mode too much this evening. Yes, your sums are right today, however, next Tuesday we will know how much the National Rail cash fares will be next year (delayed after the government changed the rules). You can expect the £9 to go up to maybe £9.50.

 

[BrianTheLion]

Sorry, I've been in Oyster mode too much this evening. Yes, your sums are right today, however, next Tuesday we will know how much the National Rail cash fares will be next year (delayed after the government changed the rules). You can expect the £9 to go up to maybe £9.50.

Thanks, I didn't realise the government hadn't finalised next years fares yet.

I'm a bit gutted that Tfl insist on photocards for under 16's as I really fancied using oyster this time round but as I live in scotland I'd have to do the online option and we cant find my sons now expired passport to even try and pass the online verification, plus theres the £10 fee to consider too...

I guess I'll just need to stick with old F&F railcard discounts and then pay the single cash fare on the day of departure...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Thanks, I didn't realise the government hadn't finalised next years fares yet.

I'm a bit gutted that Tfl insist on photocards for under 16's as I really fancied using oyster this time round but as I live in scotland I'd have to do the online option and we cant find my sons now expired passport to even try and pass the online verification, plus theres the £10 fee to consider too...

I guess I'll just need to stick with old F&F railcard discounts and then pay the single cash fare on the day of departure...

Back on original topic slightly...

When purchasing a discounted child day travelcard for £2 does an adult ticket need to be bought at the same time (as you do when you buy NR tickets)?

 

[MikeWh]

Just a last minute thought. Depending on where you are coming from near Edmonton Green, is Winchmore Hill or Palmers Green an option? If yes, the rail only fare changing at Finsbury Park onto another NR train to Kings Cross is only £4 adult, £2 child. Again it will go up a little.

 

[BrianTheLion]

Just a last minute thought. Depending on where you are coming from near Edmonton Green, is Winchmore Hill or Palmers Green an option? If yes, the rail only fare changing at Finsbury Park onto another NR train to Kings Cross is only £4 adult, £2 child. Again it will go up a little.

Im actually staying in Edmonton Green in the new Travelodge they just opened. I'm literally almost across the road from the station.