Class 350 guards.

[hstmatt]

I travel on the london midland class 350 alot and i noticed this sort of guards area by the first class area.But the guard uses the back cab so is this a guards compartment and if so why dont they use it.Thanks.
http://s1190.photobucket.com/albums/z449/houndog1372/?action=view&current=TRAINS047.jpg

 

[Schnellzug]

Don't they use them? That's what they're for, maybe they don't want to be disturbed by the punters and they'd rather sit and read the paper in peace.

 

[notadriver]

I've never seen this compartment before. Most modern EMU types such as Electrostar don't have a guards compartment.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

390s, 444s and 450s all have them too.

 

[Jc1991]

i remember seeing them in use when 8 car 350's went to liverpool back in 2006-8 when Silverlink were running it.

 

[MK Tom]

I travel on 350s every week and I have never noticed that before. Which side of first class is it on?

 

[150222]

Maybe they are only on the 350/1's. These were originally 450's which of course have them. Havn't been on a 350 since 2006 so not sure.

 

[notadriver]

What I don't understand is why units such as 390, 444 and 450s have them but yet the fastest domestic trains in the UK class 395s don't have them.

 

[150222]

What I don't understand is why units such as 390, 444 and 450s have them but yet the fastest domestic trains in the UK class 395s don't have them.

395's don't have a lot of things! (first class)

 

[Galvanize]

Most of the time, the conductor on LM Class 350s dispatches from the cab, especially if the train is busy. On SWT Class 450s (I don't go on Class 444s very often!!), the conductor works from inside the train, especially from the middle carriage where their "office" is located. I've only seen a conductor dispatching from the cab on a 450 a couple of times, but the train was absolutely rammed, so I guess thats expected!!

I suppose the cab is a safer place for the conductor to leave their belongings if they are moving about the train, rather than in the "office" with transparent glass!

This is purely through observation, I'm not trying to drop anybody in it though!!

 

[driver9000]

What I don't understand is why units such as 390, 444 and 450s have them but yet the fastest domestic trains in the UK class 395s don't have them.

Don't the 395s work under DOO so have no need for a Guards office? Last time I travelled on one the host/inspector whatever they're called was continually up and down the train.

 

[swt_passenger]

I asked a LM guard a couple of years ago why they don't use the guards office on 350/1s and he replied that it is because there is no union agreement in place to do so. :roll:

You just couldn't make it up...

 

[DesiroDom]

Most classes don't have a guard compartment sprinters EMU's pacers etc all the guards just sit in the rear cab, as someone said away from the punters

 

[87015]

I asked a LM guard a couple of years ago why they don't use the guards office on 350/1s and he replied that it is because there is no union agreement in place to do so. :roll:

You just couldn't make it up...

LM? Guards? Visible to the public? Some mistake surely?

 

[ChampsRacing]

Its true that the guards compartment on 350s where originally 450s for swt (350/1s), if you look on 450s they are exactly the same design and spec of a 450 barring the pantograph and the 2+2 seating.

 

[Pumbaa]

LM? Guards? Visible to the public? Some mistake surely?

Yes - only on /1s, not /2s. Trolley hosts used to use it as a bin bag/odds and sods storage space when they were on the services. And as swt_passenger pointed out, they are not allowed to use them. They can still use it as storage, but not allowed to carry out their duties from it. Ridiculous. Much prefer SWTs arrangement.

 

[westcoaster]

There is nothing in there at all, it's not fitted out as per the 450's.

 

[150222]

Surely it would be better to remove it and create additional seats?

 

[Matt Taylor]

Personally I prefer working from the office on a 450, the cabs are dreadful from a guards perspective and if you are working an busy eight car from the middle cab you have to clamber over the drivers seat to get to the door controls, the space is so tight that it isn't unknown for guards to accidentally press the emergency stop button or trip out some MCBs while trying to operate the doors.

This is why I prefer 455s.

 

[trains2064]

I do think we are getting away from the subject here. Stop the Guard bashing.

The RMT agree the guard needs a place of safety to work from. The area in the train is not. Also with guard operated doors and I think we all agree the DOO is a poor arrangement and we should have a guard on all trains for operations and safety before revenue.

With LM services being commuter trains over 90% of their network the guard needs to be in the back to operate the doors as the is often no room in the train when busy to do this.

 

[swt_passenger]

I do think we are getting away from the subject here. Stop the Guard bashing.

The RMT agree the guard needs a place of safety to work from. The area in the train is not. Also with guard operated doors and I think we all agree the DOO is a poor arrangement and we should have a guard on all trains for operations and safety before revenue.

With LM services being commuter trains over 90% of their network the guard needs to be in the back to operate the doors as the is often no room in the train when busy to do this.

Sorry, I just can't see that this is a safety issue. SWT guards use the offices quite routinely, however busy the trains are. There is no obvious difference between the types of services, unless commuters in LM's area are somehow more dangerous, or the trains are more overcrowded.

And no-one's been bashing guards, or mentioned DOO anywhere as far as I can see...

 

[Pumbaa]

Sorry, I just can't see that this is a safety issue. SWT guards use the offices quite routinely, however busy the trains are. There is no obvious difference between the types of services, unless commuters in LM's area are somehow more dangerous, or the trains are more overcrowded.

And no-one's been bashing guards, or mentioned DOO anywhere as far as I can see...

+1 on both points there. If anything, as a regular user of both services, SWT typically are busier, and LM suits the operation of the guards space with the long-distance Crewe runs and Brum - Liverpool.

 

[mr_jrt]

Sorry, I just can't see that this is a safety issue. SWT guards use the offices quite routinely, however busy the trains are. There is no obvious difference between the types of services, unless commuters in LM's area are somehow more dangerous, or the trains are more overcrowded.

And no-one's been bashing guards, or mentioned DOO anywhere as far as I can see...

Fine, I will then

I would prefer DOO on the WCML commuter services which I regularly use. On the nice straight platforms and given the modern equipment available IMHO the driver can quite safely manage the doors...waiting for the guard just seems to serve to extend dwell times on a very busy railway (which can be so very frustrating when you miss a connection by the 30 seconds or so it takes for the train doors to open after coming to a full stop). It all seems a tad quaint to me as a regular user of the DOO Thameslink on the MML and GN (AFAIK - I've never seen a guard on them) and the Southern express services down to Brighton that seem perfectly fine with DOO.

Where it's viable to not require guard (and I'm quite aware this is not always possible), it just seems to be employing people for the sake of employing people to have them. I certainly don't hold it against those that are already in that role for defending their jobs, nor the unions for fighting for their members, I'm just of the opinion that they're not needed these days.

...just throwing the opinions of a independent member of the pubic out there to add to the chorus

 

[notadriver]

All that needs to change on your LM train is instead for the driver to release (open) the doors and the guards to close them imo.

 

[Pumbaa]

Im in favour of that. It eliminates the (in my opinion) pointless task of the guard having to observe the train in the platform before releasing the doors.

I don't know how easily accessible the door release controls are on the cab bulkhead sitting down though. I think they are directly behind the driver. Open to correction on that though.

 

[MK Tom]

I asked on the previous page which side of first class they're on? As in the side with standard class seats before the door or the side without?

 

[westcoaster]

First class then a set of 4 seats ( with the sliding frost effect door opposite ), then the door.

 

[Simon Poole]

Its a storage area, when they have the onboard catering they keep hot water in there for tea and coffee and they store stuff, i think there even a sink inside?

 

[Pumbaa]

No there isn't - and no more onboard catering.

MKTom - the side that doesn't have the single toilet, or the side next to coach C depending how you want to classify it!

 

[A0]

LM? Guards? Visible to the public? Some mistake surely?

Harsh - every time I've used the Northampton - Crewe service the guard has been visible wandering through the train.

I think south of Northampton they're less visible, but most of the stations have barriers, so ticket checking etc is less important.