Have the goal posts moved a lot?

[142094]

All train drivers do is pull levers. It must be easy. Signaller job is harder.

You obviously need to go away and do some research to back that statement up.

 

[bb21]

You obviously need to go away and do some research to back that statement up.

I think there is an element of a joke gone wrong in there rather than him being malicious. I see that MattE2010 has answered him appropriately above already.

 

[142094]

I think there is an element of a joke gone wrong in there rather than him being malicious. I see that MattE2010 has answered him appropriately above already.

Hard to tell sometimes

 

[notadriver]

Elementalpat, did you mention distance being a factor? I know Southern will reject straightaway just on that basis. Driving for an hour to work, doing a 9+ hour shift and then having to drive an hour back isn't funny.

As others have said maybe there are a lot more applicants than there have been previously. Many of my colleagues have a degree - I've not been among so many graduates in a work environment since I left university!

 

[notadriver]

You obviously need to go away and do some research to back that statement up.

Erm Hiall is a driver! He's probably just finishing his PNB and about to drive one of those gorgeous Class 380 Desiros!

 

[BestWestern]

Well, no obviously! However, my skills and experiences should put me above any average Tom, Dick or Harry, right? After all, there a no real special pre-requisites to be a Conductor!

You sound like you are on a wage already. I have been applying for jobs that do not require uni education (which I have and don't think it's worth it now!) and still get to see any management team!!

Your second comment hits the nail on the head; your Uni education is sadly not nearly as valuable as you were probably once led to believe. Thanks to the ludicrous culture in this country of everyone being persuaded that going to University is both a necessity and a God-given right, when in fact it is neither, we are awash with debt-ridden ex-Students who can't find anybody remotely interested in what they did at Uni for several years of their life. It must seem grossly unfair if you are in that boat, but sadly all you can do is grit your teeth and get on with it. You need to let your slightly chip-on-shoulder attitude go, and just submit the best applications you can and hope for the best.

The ability to teach is of course a great skill in itself, but I'm sorry to say that it probably won't be enough to make you top of the pile, it isn't entirely relevant to a Traincrew role. You suggest a view that a Guard's job requires no particular skill, I would suggest that you study in more detail the job descriptions. The general attributes looked for include such things as the ability to hold considerable responsibility for safety and deal with safety critical situations; manage challenging people and circumstances, potentially including serious emergencies; work unsupervised and use initiative to deal with a massive array of possible occurrences; adhere to and retain comprehensive knowledge of strict rules and regulations; regularly and reliably work punishing shift patterns; deal honestly with company revenue and assets, and so on. That list is not exhaustive, but it gives you an idea of what is looked for when recruiting, and the chances are that there will regularly be those who can demonstrate much of this in their previous work life. You need to ensure that you marry up your application with the specifics of what they are looking for, as much of the recruitment process is based on certain 'buzzwords' and company-talk which they will look for and use to judge an application rather than actually read it. If 'job talk' phrases are used in the job description, try and incorporate them in some way into what you submit. It sounds (and is) a bit silly, but that's how many firms do it.

A final piece of advice regarding a Guard role (Conductor, Train Manager etc...) - if this is not the job that you want, do yourself a favour and don't apply for it! Many outside the industry wrongly hold a belief that going for Guard now will mean they'll be driving trains in a few years time, but it really doesn't work like that. This is a primary front-line Traincrew role and a significant career in itself, it's not a sideshow while you await a Driver's job. It pays very well for what is generally a comfortable workload, has it's perks and is generally an enjoyable way to earn a crust, but if it isn't something you are likely to be happy doing for the foreseeable, then don't bother going for it!

 

[elementalpat]

OK I'll break up my work history and relevant skills

4 years teaching English abroad = communication skills and planning skills for classes

1 year at outdoor education centre = similar to above, but also making sure activities were done safely and followed the risk assessment.

6 months promoting recycling = Lots of face to face contact cos of evaluating new recycling scheme for residents and persuading others to take part (persuasion and dealing with 'tough' residents cos this was a door knocking job)

That is my work history and skills in a nutshell folks.

Notadriver: The conductor role was based in Brighton and I live there, so that was not the issue.

Bestwestern: I am applying for these roles cos I feel I need more skills in some aspects and feel that these 'entry level' roles are the way to go. However, if I am not even getting a chance on these entry level roles, then I am kinda stumped!!!

 

[AlterEgo]

Bestwestern: I am applying for these roles cos I feel I need more skills in some aspects and feel that these 'entry level' roles are the way to go. However, if I am not even getting a chance on these entry level roles, then I am kinda stumped!!!

Conductor and Train Driver are not "entry level" roles. In my TOC the overwhelming majority of guards and, I believe, just about all drivers are recruited from either within the company or from inside the railway industry.

Your CV isn't bad, but can you not see that it might not be entirely suitable for those roles?

You are going to be up against people who have vastly more experience who may be more suitable. Quite a few bus drivers become train drivers, for example.

I can't see any fault finding experience, or any experience in leading the general public. How are you going to prove you're suitable to be in charge of 300 people on a packed commuter train, that's failed in the snow? You will be required to try and first fix the train, or find out exactly hat is wrong. You'll also at the same time have to manage angry people who just want to get home out of the cold.

The job is very difficult and requires specific skills.

Perhaps you have this experience, but haven't yet mentioned it?

 

[notadriver]

I think Brighton is hard to get into anyway because it is a coastal depot. I also think if they had to choose between a bus driver and a teacher they might go for the former as they might see you as overqualified ?

Did you say had experience of shift work including 4am starts or 2am finishes?

 

[LCC106]

I also think if they had to choose between a bus driver and a teacher they might go for the former as they might see you as overqualified ?

Overqualified? Doubtful. I do agree with the need to emphasise / demonstrate relevant experience though. I'm currently sifting applications for a Sales and Marketing Administrator role and NONE of the applicants has demonstrated relevant experience! Shocking! Examples include a chef, beautician and website designer!

 

[BestWestern]

Conductor and Train Driver are not "entry level" roles. In my TOC the overwhelming majority of guards and, I believe, just about all drivers are recruited from either within the company or from inside the railway industry.

Agreed, totally. Re-read my earlier post; Guards are not "entry level" staff :roll: If you want to look at easy access into the industry then you would be better off looking at something like gateline, though it's a pretty thankless job. At the next level up you have roles such as platform & dispatch, or ticket office staff. Traincrew are what you might call the 'top tier' of front line 'coal face' staff, with junior management generally being the next rung after that. If you are applying for a Guard's job and it's apparent that you fail to appreciate the gravity of the role, then you won't stand half a chance. These jobs are very, very popular and sought after by a great many applicants, some of which are like you in that they have applied many times over. Most of them however will appreciate that a position which carries substantial responsibility and pays somewhere in the region of 30k is a not mickey mouse job.

AlterEgo and notadriver make a sharp observation about bus driving - it's a fairly established route in, and indeed one which I followed. If you continue to have no luck with your applications to TOCs, you could try doing a year or two on the roads. Brighton & Hove would be your local firm, they are among the best in the business and their rate of pay is better than most, though admittedly not on a par with a railway salary. Your foriegn language skills are also likely to deemed more of an asset there I would imagine, bearing in mind the multicultural nature of Brighton.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think Brighton is hard to get into anyway because it is a coastal depot. I also think if they had to choose between a bus driver and a teacher they might go for the former as they might see you as overqualified ?

There always seem to be jobs going at Brighton though, maybe it isn't a happy depot?!

 

[choo~choo]

A fair few ATW staff start as cleaners and progress through that way nto shunters/drivers, i'd call that entry level imo.. Can be hard work at times..

 

[BestWestern]

A fair few ATW staff start as cleaners and progress through that way nto shunters/drivers, i'd call that entry level imo.. Can be hard work at times..

Fair point, I'd agree with that.

 

[TOCRecruit]

People who get Train Driver roles tend to have:
Read the job description and matched their own skills and experiences to them, giving examples, in the application form.
They have read the company website and done a bit of research and have managed to align their behaviours with that of the company.
Have a focus on both safety and customer service.

People who don't get train driver jobs are those; who think that because their dad is on the railway, they will be great at it, show a poor attitude at any point during the selection process, who rely on an old mate from years back to put a good word in.
Train drivers are selected on merit and ability, closely followed by behaviours and attitude. Promise....

 

[LCC106]

@TOCRecruit *like*

 

[notadriver]

Is it still a well respected role? Every time fares go up or the tube ballot for strike action, newspapers and forums constantly state drivers are overpaid etc etc etc.

 

[jon0844]

Hard to say. I'd say it's a respected role with a lot of responsibility, but sometimes the union (and individual members) don't do themselves many favours.

I wouldn't worry about it. As a journalist, I'm probably far more hated!

 

[TDK]

I am applying for these roles cos I feel I need more skills in some aspects and feel that these 'entry level' roles are the way to go. However, if I am not even getting a chance on these entry level roles, then I am kinda stumped!!!

I'm not stumped and with an attitude like that it is obvious you are not getting a chance with the so called "entry level" jobs and if these are as you say "entry level jobs" and you can't get a look in then the recruitment teams working for the TOC's seem to be doing a good job!:roll: