Derby to Hook

[I like Class 153]

If I was catching a train from Derby to Hook, how many changes would I need to do

 

[sonic2009]

Depending on which route you took.

Via London.:

Derby - London St Pancras
Tube to Waterloo
London Waterloo - Hook

Not via London

Derby - Reading
Reading to Basingstoke
Basingstoke to Hook

Or

Derby - Basingstoke
Basingstoke - Hook

 

[Wyvern]

Three trains an hour moreover.

People make such a fuss about European railways but how many places on the continent does that apply to?

Beware though. I haven't checked but some tickets may be "by London only" or "Not London" rather than being completely open. (that is "any permitted")

 

[LexyBoy]

Beware though. I haven't checked but some tickets may be "by London only" or "Not London" rather than being completely open. (that is "any permitted")

In this case the more expensive would be valid on either route. I appreciate that NRE wants you to believe otherwise.

Alternatively the cheaper ticket can be excessed for travel on the more expensive route.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

People make such a fuss about European railways but how many places on the continent does that apply to?

Quite. We certainly pay for it but we do have a very good service in many respects.

 

[Wyvern]

In this case the more expensive would be valid on either route. I appreciate that NRE wants you to believe otherwise.

Alternatively the cheaper ticket can be excessed for travel on the more expensive route.

PLease do not be offended. You may be an expert in these matters, in which case I apologise.

Let me suggest some hypotheses.

If the more expensive ticket was available by either route, would it not be marked "any permitted"?

For a given ticket I understand that all those TOC's that might be involved in the journey will receive a proportion of the fare.

For instance from Belper to Brighton you can buy an "any permitted" which allows you to go through STP's basement or through Victoria. Or you can buy a "By FCC only" for £5 less, on which I assume only EMT and FCC get a share.

May it not be the case that ,for a "Not London" Derby to Hook ticket ,EMT would not get any revenue, in which case they may not accept your ticket. Similarlyn for a "via London" ticket, Arriva XC would got get any revenue (and so on).

It used to be the case in BR days a "not London" was cheaper to encourage people to avoid the capital and reduce congestion. In the case (for instance) of Belper to Woking the "Not London" is more expensive. XC have a reputation of being expensive and I assumed this accounted for the fare price difference.

If you look at BRE different trains have different prices for Derby to Hook, even among off peak tickets.

 

[34D]

May it not be the case that ,for a "Not London" Derby to Hook ticket ,EMT would not get any revenue, in which case they may not accept your ticket. Similarlyn for a "via London" ticket, Arriva XC would got get any revenue (and so on).

You may well be correct, however if the company receives money is irrelevant to the issue of whether a route is valid.

Taking your examples - I'd expect EMT get something of a non-London ticket - route Derby West Hampstead Richmond Woking Hook - and AXC for London route derby tamworth euston waterloo woking hook (haven't checked either example in the routeing guide - but both seem reasonable to me

 

[LexyBoy]

PLease do not be offended. You may be an expert in these matters, in which case I apologise.

Not offended in the slightest! I was merely pointing out that a ticket printed with a particular route may be used on other routes, subject to an excess fare in some cases. Sorry if I seemed brusque! (I wouldn't describe myself as an expert, I just spend too much time on this forum!).

If the more expensive ticket was available by either route, would it not be marked "any permitted"?

Not necessarily. It seems that a lot of tickets routed London have appeared recently; I'm not sure to what extent these used to be Any Permitted compared to new London routes where there was no route via London before (since routes to/from London have improved faster than others). I suspect a lot of fares have become London in an attempt to "force" passengers into travelling with the TOC who gets the greater share of revenue (and prices that flow).

In other cases (especially Virgin priced flows) there is a London ticket and a ticket for cross-country travel which is routed e.g. Oxford Preston rather than Not London. Whilst a London ticket would be valid on the Oxford Preston route (if it's more expensive), it's not the same as Any Permitted since some of the mapped routes in the Routeing Guide are precluded as they are not via either London or Oxford and Preston.

As 34D says, revenue allocation is irrelevant to ticket validity.

It used to be the case in BR days a "not London" was cheaper to encourage people to avoid the capital and reduce congestion. In the case (for instance) of Belper to Woking the "Not London" is more expensive. XC have a reputation of being expensive and I assumed this accounted for the fare price difference.

Indeed, going via London is now often a similar price or cheaper than avoiding London (though the time restrictions on Off Peak tickets are usually tighter via London). With Advance fares especially, going via London can be very much cheaper.

For your Belper-Woking example, an Off Peak Return is priced £93.00 Via London and £72.70 Not Via London. A Super Off Peak Return Via London is priced £64.60. XC do not do Super Off Peak tickets so there is no comparable fare for Not London.

 

[Wyvern]

For your Belper-Woking example, an Off Peak Return is priced £93.00 Via London and £72.70 Not Via London. A Super Off Peak Return Via London is priced £64.60. XC do not do Super Off Peak tickets so there is no comparable fare for Not London.

Ah that would explain the oddity. I didnt notice whether it was Off Peak or Super Off Peak on NRE.