LM 150 cascades not adding up

[northwichcat]

Updated fleet lists are showing the following as being transferred to Northern:

150103
150110
150111
150112
150113
150114
150115
150116
150117
150118
150119

150204
150206
150226
150214

This is 3 less units than DfT allocated them.

On the other hand FGW have:

150001
150002

150108
150126
150101
150102
150122
150104
150106
150124
150125

150202
150216

2 x toilet less 150/2 vehicles

That's 2 extra 2 car 150s over what they've been allocated.

 

[sprinterguy]

This is 3 less units than DfT allocated them.

Northern also have 150132, 150210 and 150220. As far as I know, these have been delivered to Newton Heath.

 

[northwichcat]

Northern also have 150132, 150210 and 150220. As far as I know, these have been delivered to Newton Heath.

OK that answers one question then. However, how have FGW got extra 150s?

 

[sprinterguy]

OK that answers one question then. However, how have FGW got extra 150s?

How many were FGW meant to receive? I know Northern were meant to get eighteen, but can't remember the figure for FGW.

 

[northwichcat]

How many were FGW meant to receive? I know Northern were meant to get eighteen, but can't remember the figure for FGW.

14 x 150 vehicles initially, 4 x 150 vehicles as a result of the later DfT announcement and then the 150/0s and the toilet less 150/2 vehicles announed a couple of weeks back. I make that 9 x 2 car 150s and they seem to have 11.

Edit: There were also another 4 x 150 vehicles to replace the ATW 150s, so it does add up. That must mean the 150 cascades are complete now then.

 

[sprinterguy]

I've gone over the notes that I've been keeping in an attempt to keep abreast of the alterations that have happened to the cascade, and it looks like 150202 and 150216 weren't allocated to go to either Northern or FGW until quite late in the cascade.

Presumably FGW stumped up the additional funding for these two units in the same way that they have for the additional eight carriages in the form of 150001, 150002 and 57209/57212.

Note: Missed your edit, 150202 and 150216 must have been the replacements for the ATW 150s. So yeah, the cascades are done and dusted now (Minus the last couple of hangers-on at Tyseley like 150001 and 150106, though I think that their departures are imminent if it hasn't happened already).

 

[jonesy3001]

Think you might have forgotten about the 5 142's coming to northern from FGW to replace the 180s.

 

[northwichcat]

Think you might have forgotten about the 5 142's coming to northern from FGW to replace the 180s.

Officially it is 150s replacing the 180s. There was a proposal which would see the FGW 142s replace the 180s but that got rejected. The previous proposal to that was for the LO 150s to replace the 180s. Had the LO 150s been ready to release in time for the Dec 08 timetable, Northern wouldn't have taken on the 180s at all.

 

[sprinterguy]

Officially it is 150s replacing the 180s. There was a proposal which would see the FGW 142s replace the 180s but that got rejected. The previous proposal to that was for the LO 150s to replace the 180s. Had the LO 150s been ready to release in time for the Dec 08 timetable, Northern wouldn't have taken on the 180s at all.

The seven (two of which have already been returned) 142s that are returning to Northern shouldn't be ignored though (even though I'm sure there are many around Lancashire who would rather they were ), as they are still a critical part of the current cascade programme due to the arrival of additional 150s at FGW.

Though of course they're not critical to the subject of this thread, in the same way as the four additional 156s for EMT and five 180s for FGW are not.

 

[tbtc]

The seven (two of which have already been returned) 142s that are returning to Northern shouldn't be ignored though (even though I'm sure there are many around Lancashire who would rather they were ), as they are still a critical part of the current cascade programme due to the arrival of additional 150s at FGW.

Though of course they're not critical to the subject of this thread, in the same way as the four additional 156s for EMT and five 180s for FGW are not.

I agree.

If it means a single 150 can be replaced by a doubled 142 then its a better chance of a seat - got to be realistic about capacity enhancements (however "undesirable" the units may be)

 

[WillPS]

Yeah I agree. I sort of think it'd be great (if politically disasterous) to get all the Pacers in the North (since the fleets in Wales and Wessex are pretty pocket-sized by comparison) ready for the 2014 onwards franchisee to replace in one massive lot.

 

[DjU]

The seven (two of which have already been returned) 142s that are returning to Northern shouldn't be ignored though

All seven have been returned, two went on Monday and the last three Yesterday.

 

[tbtc]

Yeah I agree. I sort of think it'd be great (if politically disasterous) to get all the Pacers in the North (since the fleets in Wales and Wessex are pretty pocket-sized by comparison) ready for the 2014 onwards franchisee to replace in one massive lot.

It would make things a lot simpler. We still have some single 153s running around, and a Pacer would be an improvement on that - if it means Northern getting the Welsh 142s for a few years but means Northern would get brand new DMUs once the Pacer withdrawl happens (whilst ATW/ FGW stick with refurbished 150s) then I'd pay that short term price.

 

[WillPS]

It's just never that simple unfortunately. Exchanging 153s for 142s would be perceived to represent poor value on both sides.

 

[tbtc]

It's just never that simple unfortunately. Exchanging 153s for 142s would be perceived to represent poor value on both sides.

I appreciate that people will complain either way, its impossible to keep everyone happy.

 

[DesiroDom]

I wish for northern to allocate some to newcastle never happen though

 

[mawallace]

now the 142's have gone back, what is coevering for them? The 150's from LM, or other units?

Where are they using the LM 150's

 

[Anvil1984]

I wish for northern to allocate some to newcastle never happen though

Northern wont allocate 150s to Newcastle service due to restrictions which mean it couldnt work Durham or Cumbrian Coast services

 

[Class172]

Where are they using the LM 150's

If you are referring to the the ex-LM 150s now with FGW, then they will be found anywhere a 150 is normally allocated on that day: I have seen 150104 near Dawlish and in Worcester.

 

[sprinterguy]

Northern wont allocate 150s to Newcastle service due to restrictions which mean it couldnt work Durham or Cumbrian Coast services

Would it really take much to clear the Durham Coast for 150s though? I can't see why it would, I just don't think that anyone has ever had reason to try.

As for the Cumbrian Coast, that's a route out of Newton Heath isn't it? Although I might be mistakenly stuck in the past of Regional Railways North West/FNW days.

 

[Lampshade]

Would it really take much to clear the Durham Coast for 150s though? I can't see why it would, I just don't think that anyone has ever had reason to try.

Shouldn't be too difficult, Mk3s are permitted.

As for the Cumbrian Coast, that's a route out of Newton Heath isn't it? Although I might be mistakenly stuck in the past of Regional Railways North West/FNW days.

Cumbrian Coast is a Heaton route.

 

[Anvil1984]

The platform curve at Hartlepool is one thats often mentionned for 150s and I think its the tunnels around Sunderland but I could be wrong

 

[sprinterguy]

Cumbrian Coast is a Heaton route.

Dear me, when did that happen? It makes sense of course considering the proximity of the depot to the northern end of the route, but it's a strange thought when green-striped 156s, GMPTE grey/red/white 142s and NWT 153s were the regular fodder on the line not so long ago.
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The platform curve at Hartlepool is one thats often mentionned for 150s and I think its the tunnels around Sunderland but I could be wrong

Ah, thanks for the information, I'm quite curious as to the nature of any physical barriers there are to the reported problems 150s operating round the Durham Coast.

 

[Anvil1984]

Quite a while back I think, predomiantly Heaton 156s, but dunno about the 153s usually Newtn Heath ones I think