New TOC licence conditions to provide accurate information

[Smethwickian]

Train companies that fail to provide proper information for passengers will face action from rail regulators, the Office of Rail Regulation said today.

It proposes that under new licence obligations, train companies, station operators and Network Rail will have to offer "appropriate, timely and accurate information" about services when there are disruptions.
ORR chief executive Richard Price says: "Rail passengers in Britain today rightly expect to receive reliable information so that they can plan their journeys and make sensible decisions when services are disrupted. This is a fundamental requirement, not an optional 'add on', and we need to do all we can to make to make sure the railways deliver."
He said a rail industry code of practice for information provision was welcome, but that, still, only one third of passengers think delays are handled well.
"The new passenger information obligations we propose will allow the regulator to take action against any organisation consistently failing to meet commitments under the industry's own code. Good performers have nothing to fear. This greater accountability will ensure that poor performers are not allowed to undermine the industry as a whole," said Price.

In response, the Press Association reports that ATOC chief executive Michael Roberts insisted 'significant progress has been made in recent years' and that the industry was investing millions of pounds in better information provision.
"We are therefore disappointed that despite acknowledging positive improvements to the quality of passenger information during disruption, the ORR is proposing new licence obligations for the rail industry," he said.
"The rail delivery group, recommended by the McNulty report (on rail costs), has been set up to strengthen industry leadership in tackling these sorts of issues. We hope the Government's upcoming (rail) command paper will support an industry-led approach especially at a time when ministers are seeking to reduce the burden of red tape on businesses."
Transport Secretary Justine Greening is quoted as saying:"I want to see train companies working with ORR on how the new licence obligation can best be delivered on the ground, rather than dispute its need. Operators who believe in great passenger service have nothing to fear from the new licence condition."

There is a consultation document on the proposal at http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/upload/pdf/passenger_information_consultation_dec2011.pdf

 

[WatcherZero]

I believe this mainly applies to the few stations which still dont have destination boards.

 

[jon0844]

The provision of information during disruption is a real issue and ATOC shouldn't even waste time defending it.

Some TOCs do a very good job of organising things during disruption, a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes, and that's the difficult bit - so it's crazy that they then fall down on passing on information to the public afterwards.

Examples being the buses/coaches brought in from St Albans to Hatfield (which isn't something you can do in the blink of an eye) while nobody at King's Cross is being told to use the TL line to go to St Albans - and are left standing around like idiots!

The new Atos system also makes it even harder to convey useful information and that's being introduced all over the network - so I can't even see how things are not in fact going to get worse.

A classic example of poor information from the Atos system, at Potters Bar the other day: It's just before 1748 and the system decides to announce that the 1801 service to King's Cross has been cancelled, due to a previous broken down train. It then says that the next service to stop at platform 1 will be the 1748 service to Moorgate.

Now, for one thing, the system would be better off saying when the next train to King's Cross will arrive - or at least telling people that it might be better to travel on the slow service to Moorgate and change at Finsbury Park (a manual announcer would clearly do this).

However, to make it even more stupid, when it announced the cancelled train, the Moorgate train was actually on platform 1 and left before the annoucement ended. What's more, there was a 1805 service to King's Cross (a football special? Seems odd to have two trains within 4 minutes) and that would have surely been a better one to announce for people now upset/stressed about their train being cancelled.

This is clearly an automated system that is not set up properly, so in times of disruption gives misleading info. It's bizarre to announce a cancelled train, only to then say the next train is an EARLIER service and maybe going to another destination. It's factually correct, of course, but downright stupid.

 

[northwichcat]

I believe this mainly applies to the few stations which still dont have destination boards.

The 'few' stations includes 99% of Northern Rail managed stations which aren't in a PTE area.

 

[WillPS]

At least Northern have destination blinds on the trains themselves. An occasional passenger would have no idea of the 3/4 HST departures from Langley Mill and Alfreton.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

At least Northern have destination blinds on the trains themselves. An occasional passenger would have no idea of the 3/4 HST departures from Langley Mill and Alfreton.

Aye, but half of them don't display the real destination!

 

[ginger]

NXEA are completely and utterly rubbish at this! They just throw staff out at Liv st but then tell them nothing.....like throwing the christians to the lions when they are facing 60,000 furious commuters.....

Personally I feel sorry for them.....

ATOC should shut up....I completely agree this is prerequsite and not an add on.....in these days of wifi / IT surely this should be relatively straightforward?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

The 'few' stations includes 99% of Northern Rail managed stations which aren't in a PTE area.

And quite a few that are in PTE areas too!

 

[Aictos]

The provision of information during disruption is a real issue and ATOC shouldn't even waste time defending it.

Some TOCs do a very good job of organising things during disruption, a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes, and that's the difficult bit - so it's crazy that they then fall down on passing on information to the public afterwards.

Examples being the buses/coaches brought in from St Albans to Hatfield (which isn't something you can do in the blink of an eye) while nobody at King's Cross is being told to use the TL line to go to St Albans - and are left standing around like idiots!

The new Atos system also makes it even harder to convey useful information and that's being introduced all over the network - so I can't even see how things are not in fact going to get worse.

A classic example of poor information from the Atos system, at Potters Bar the other day: It's just before 1748 and the system decides to announce that the 1801 service to King's Cross has been cancelled, due to a previous broken down train. It then says that the next service to stop at platform 1 will be the 1748 service to Moorgate.

Now, for one thing, the system would be better off saying when the next train to King's Cross will arrive - or at least telling people that it might be better to travel on the slow service to Moorgate and change at Finsbury Park (a manual announcer would clearly do this).

However, to make it even more stupid, when it announced the cancelled train, the Moorgate train was actually on platform 1 and left before the annoucement ended. What's more, there was a 1805 service to King's Cross (a football special? Seems odd to have two trains within 4 minutes) and that would have surely been a better one to announce for people now upset/stressed about their train being cancelled.

This is clearly an automated system that is not set up properly, so in times of disruption gives misleading info. It's bizarre to announce a cancelled train, only to then say the next train is an EARLIER service and maybe going to another destination. It's factually correct, of course, but downright stupid.

I have also asked this but as far as I am aware it is not possible at the moment to do this as a example at Stevenage if the hourly service to Hertford North is cancelled it then announces the next train regardless of it going to Hertford North or not which I don't agree with.

Passengers have the right to know when the next direct service is especially if it's often quicker to hang around for the next service then use Finsbury Park and this should be made available via all means possible regardless of TOC.

 

[jon0844]

I bet the person who programmed it thought s/he was really clever too!

 

[northwichcat]

And quite a few that are in PTE areas too!

I agree but it's the non-PTE areas that fair worst overall. Marsden in West Yorks with 160,000 journeys per annum doesn't have the destination displays (unless they've recently been installed) but it does have a remotely operated PA system. Alderley Edge in Cheshire gets 173,000 journeys per annum and doesn't even get that.

 

[Aictos]

I agree but it's the non-PTE areas that fair worst overall. Marsden in West Yorks with 160,000 journeys per annum doesn't have the destination displays (unless they've recently been installed) but it does have a remotely operated PA system. Alderley Edge in Cheshire gets 173,000 journeys per annum and doesn't even get that.

What about Cumbernauld on the outskirts of Glasgow, doesn't have any CIS screens on the platforms - just a automated announcement prior to the train arriving.

 

[MikeWh]

At Sidcup the other evening we had the opposite to the Kings Cross/Moorgate scenario. The 1808 service to Gillingham was cancelled and the announcement said that the next service to Gillingham was at 1830. However, a fair number of people on the platform at that time (including me and my kids) were only interested in the next train to Crayford, which was at 1815. I also wonder what the announcement would say if the cancelled train had been the last through service to Gillingham.

 

[IanXC]

I agree but it's the non-PTE areas that fair worst overall. Marsden in West Yorks with 160,000 journeys per annum doesn't have the destination displays (unless they've recently been installed) but it does have a remotely operated PA system. Alderley Edge in Cheshire gets 173,000 journeys per annum and doesn't even get that.

I wonder which station is the highest usage location to not have destination displays? I can beat those, Driffield (228,000) doesn't have any displays...