National Infrastructure Plan

[ainsworth74]

As part of the budget annoucments today a National Infrastructure Plan has been published and can be found here. The bits that are relevent to the railway appear to be page 20 onwards (that's of the document not what your PDF reader says) but some skiming is required as it's intermingled with all sorts of other information about other sectors of infrastructure.

Certainly makes interesting reading so far...

Edit: Perhaps most useful table 3.C

Table 3.C: Network Rail schemes
Existing infrastructure projects

Thameslink*
Crossrail*
Reading station and environs*
Kings Cross station enlargement
Birmingham New Street station enlargement*
North West Electrification*
Manchester Ordsall Chord*
Great Western Main Line Electrification*
Felixstowe – Nuneaton freight upgrade
Redditch and Bromsgrove route extensions*
Cambridge station enlargement
North Cotswold redoubling
Cardiff suburban network enhancement*
Hitchin flyover*
Leeds station enlargement
Southampton to West Coast Main Line W10 gauge clearance
W10 gauge clearance for Southampton to Basingstoke diversionary route via Andover

Existing rolling stock projects

Longer and more Pendolino trains for the West Coast Main Line
Intercity Express for Great Western and East Coast main lines*
Additional peak capacity into London, Birmingham, Bristol, Leeds, Leicester, Liverpool, Manchester, Nottingham and Sheffield with a mix of new and re-used trains
New trains for Crossrail and Thameslink with existing trains anticipated to move to augment busy routes elsewhere*

New infrastructure projects

North Trans Pennine electrification
Network Rail Discretionary Fund
New rail link between Oxford, Bicester, Aylesbury, Milton Keynes and Bedford
Bridge renewals
Funding for winter resilience measures

* Project commenced in control period 4 but is expected to continue/complete in control period 5.

This would appear to confirm that it's North Transpennine not just Manchester - Leeds that's getting wired.

 

[philjo]

on page 57:

The Government will invest £5 million to set up a nationwide taskforce to target metal thieves and scrap metal dealers who illegally trade in stolen metal.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Well its not all bad.... Seems to be some good projects getting go ahead

 

[Kneedown]

Does anyone else find it curious, and indeed worrying that TP electrification has got the go ahead without even so much as a mention of the MML which has a much better business case with an infinite cost-benefit ratio?
Once again the East Midlands gets diddly squat.

 

[RichmondCommu]

What concerns me is who is paying for all of this? I would rather continue to reduce government debt rather than add to it. I pay a fortune in taxes in order to allow Network Rail to suck through their teeth and say "its gonna cost you guv".

 

[Nym]

Does anyone else find it curious, and indeed worrying that TP electrification has got the go ahead without even so much as a mention of the MML which has a much better business case with an infinite cost-benefit ratio?
Once again the East Midlands gets diddly squat.

Midland Mainline electrification is dependant on the outcome of HS2a getting the goahead, and then CBR analysis based on the electrification from the HS2a connection to Leeds and ECML via Derby, and the economic case and planning of HS2bR

 

[Drsatan]

There's no mention of electrifying the Marshlink line or Oxted to Uckfield, Basingstoke to Salisbury, Basingstoke to Reading or even segments of the North Downs Line which aren't electrified. Additionally, I don't see any mention of re-electrification of any of the 3rd rail lines at 25Kv AC, which is what NR predicted would inevitably happen in the future.

 

[OxtedL]

This only really covers up to 2019, I believe, so there's going to be a lot of stuff not in it.

 

[cle]

There's no mention of electrifying the Marshlink line or Oxted to Uckfield, Basingstoke to Salisbury, Basingstoke to Reading or even segments of the North Downs Line which aren't electrified. Additionally, I don't see any mention of re-electrification of any of the 3rd rail lines at 25Kv AC, which is what NR predicted would inevitably happen in the future.

I think that is smaller scale stuff, which could be covered in RUS work or even from the discretionary fund.

 

[PhilipW]

Does anyone else find it curious, and indeed worrying that TP electrification has got the go ahead without even so much as a mention of the MML which has a much better business case with an infinite cost-benefit ratio?
Once again the East Midlands gets diddly squat.

Let's look at reality. Network Rail now have their plate full of electrification schemes
- Scotland
- Lancashire triangle and TPE
- GWML
with all of these still in their early stages. Adding a further scheme is impractical.

Once the trans pennine routes are electrified (2018/19) it would then be entirely logical for the teams to start electrifying the MML including the links from Sheffield to the existing electrified sections at Wakefield and Doncaster. In reality it can not be done any earlier.

Expect to hear of the intention to electrify the MML just before the next election.

 

[DarloRich]

What concerns me is who is paying for all of this? I would rather continue to reduce government debt rather than add to it. I pay a fortune in taxes in order to allow Network Rail to suck through their teeth and say "its gonna cost you guv".

yes - that is a fair description! - ffs :roll:

Sonme very useful projects. I am suppriosed to see the Bedford-Oxford line. That has suprised me ALMOST as much as the north TPE scheme! (which i hope does to York and not just Leeds) Someone has done a very good job in getting B-O on the books! The last time this was discussed it was a yes, but there is no money! (Might almost have to priase the conservatives ( almost! )

 

[Martin222002]

Midland Mainline electrification is dependant on the outcome of HS2a getting the goahead, and then CBR analysis based on the electrification from the HS2a connection to Leeds and ECML via Derby, and the economic case and planning of HS2bR

Really the MML should be electrified whatever happens with HS2.

Go to hear that East West Rail has got the green light, but there isn't much detail as to how much of the TPE North route will be electrified.

 

[Nym]

Really the MML should be electrified whatever happens with HS2.

Go to hear that East West Rail has got the green light, but there isn't much detail as to how much of the TPE North route will be electrified.

It will be, but the spesifics about the costing for electrification and who's project is going to pay for it will need to wait for the HS2a decision and HS2bR routes.

 

[Kneedown]

Midland Mainline electrification is dependant on the outcome of HS2a getting the goahead, and then CBR analysis based on the electrification from the HS2a connection to Leeds and ECML via Derby, and the economic case and planning of HS2bR

Sorry if i've got the wrong end of the stick here, but i take that to mean that HS2 going ahead will mean the MML being left to rot, something the HS2philes deny outright.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Let's look at reality. Network Rail now have their plate full of electrification schemes
- Scotland
- Lancashire triangle and TPE
- GWML
with all of these still in their early stages. Adding a further scheme is impractical.

Once the trans pennine routes are electrified (2018/19) it would then be entirely logical for the teams to start electrifying the MML including the links from Sheffield to the existing electrified sections at Wakefield and Doncaster. In reality it can not be done any earlier.

Expect to hear of the intention to electrify the MML just before the next election.

This is my point. MML electrification has always had a far better case than any of the schemes you mention, and has now been overlooked yet again in favour of another scheme with a less favourable case.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Sorry if i've got the wrong end of the stick here, but i take that to mean that HS2 going ahead will mean the MML being left to rot, something the HS2philes deny outright.

Yep I think you've pretty much hit the nail on the head there. If we're not careful we'll end up going down the route of the once mighty SNCF.

 

[DarloRich]

but which course of action is in the greater good?

 

[Nym]

1) Look at what stock the MML Displaces, the wrong kind to get rid of pacers...

2) By no means am I saying the MML will be left to rot at all, but if HS2 goes ahead, then electrification of the MML North of Derby will be paid for by HS2, if not, it's all Network Rail's problem.
South of Derby either way will be paid for by Network Rail, but might be a lower priority, depending on if the 222s are needed to be displaced or not, it should still rank rather high BCR though.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Exactly, its case is good but the 222s are fine where they are. a 7 coach 222 does nothing to get rid of none DDA compliant stock that cant be modified economically ie pacers. Whereas a load of 185s displacing 158s does.

 

[Masbroughlad]

Where will the 185s go to?

 

[HSTEd]

2) By no means am I saying the MML will be left to rot at all, but if HS2 goes ahead, then electrification of the MML North of Derby will be paid for by HS2, if not, it's all Network Rail's problem.
South of Derby either way will be paid for by Network Rail, but might be a lower priority, depending on if the 222s are needed to be displaced or not, it should still rank rather high BCR though.

Then start wiring to Derby now.

TPE Doesnt really get rid of Pacers as Cl185s are rather specialised units thanks to the insane axle loading.
As compared to Voyager/Meridian family units with RA 2.....
It also helps displace non DDA compatible stock in the form of the HSTs assigned to the Nottingham runs.

 

[Nym]

Well, 185s displacing 158s onto 156 routes and the 156s replacing pacers / 150s.

158s won't work on pacer routes, you need 150s, 156s or 172s to work them.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Where will the 185s go to?

I'd have them doing...

MIA - Calder Valley - LDS 2tph
MIA - Lakes 1tph
MIA - Cleethorpes 1tph
Liverpool L St - CLC - MAN - Buxton 1tph
MAN - Buxton additionals 1tph
Blackpool N - Scarbrough 1tph
Scarbrough - York 1tph (Additional)
MIA - Southport 1tph Portion working with MIA - Lakes 1tph.

Would all work from the current depot network then...

 

[HSTEd]

Well, 185s displacing 158s onto 156 routes and the 156s replacing pacers / 150s.

158s won't work on pacer routes, you need 150s, 156s or 172s to work them.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I'd have them doing...

MIA - Calder Valley - LDS 2tph
MIA - Lakes 1tph
MIA - Cleethorpes 1tph
Liverpool L St - CLC - MAN - Buxton 1tph
MAN - Buxton additionals 1tph
Blackpool N - Scarbrough 1tph
Scarbrough - York 1tph (Additional)
MIA - Southport 1tph Portion working with MIA - Lakes 1tph.

What about the fact that 185s cant use any Sprinter differential speeds?
Also dont Cl172s accelerate even slower than Cl158s?

 

[Nym]

What about the fact that 185s cant use any Sprinter differential speeds?
Also dont Cl172s accelerate even slower than Cl158s?

The differential speeds is an issue I'm not too up on at the moment, if you want to move the whole fleet somwhere and get their fleet back in exchange, I'd think that SWT is a prime candidate, all their 159 and 158 fleet for the 185 fleet. Don't think theres many differential speeds down there.

Maybe somone can tell me what of them routes would be badly affected by the differential speed limits. But I've taken into account depot considerations, and provision of 1st class where there is a market.

And 172s are the fastest (after 185s) accelarating new gen DMU.

 

[Masbroughlad]

Put them on Bristol/Plymouth to Penzance stoppers instead of overcrowded, unsuited 150s. Or how about on Leeds-Nottinghams or Nottingham to Cardiffs.

 

[HSTEd]

Electrification of the Midland Main Line from Bedford to Derby with the spurs to Corby and Nottingham pretty much allows the elimination of the MML HST fleet with replacement by new EMUs.

That comes out at 108 non DDA compliant vehicles.

Once you include the Cl222 sets getting pantograph cars that gives you a rather high BCR in terms of fuel savings and the possible "Electric Bounce".

EDIT: thats 108 vehicles for something under 150km of route mileage, and those are 23m non DDA compliant vehicles so thats a greater proportion of the total non DDA compliant capcacity than the number suggests.

 

[jon0844]

I read in the Evening Standard that the extension of Oyster had also been approved, and out in all directions. Will it still be by May 2012, which was the target (before Olympics)?

This is great news.

 

[tbtc]

I think that is smaller scale stuff, which could be covered in RUS work or even from the discretionary fund.

I'd rather the (insert number here) billion was invested in this kind of stuff first, really. Small scale improvements like the Dore Chord can be done much faster than waiting to electrify 100 miles before there's any noticeable improvement.

TPE North, whilst welcome, feels more like "politicians looking for A Big Scheme" rather than what DFT/ Network Rail would necessarily spend the money on right now.

 

[jon0844]

Now downloading the PDF to keep me busy tonight. I have to say that it's nice to see a division between the existing projects and new ones, rather than try and claim everything as new.

(I could have been at a company Xmas party tonight, but felt too tired - this is bound to keep me awake!).

 

[ntg]

I read in the Evening Standard that the extension of Oyster had also been approved, and out in all directions. Will it still be by May 2012, which was the target (before Olympics)?

This is great news.

This was something London is dealing with. And yep, apparently all of the South East is being included - I'm guessing it means to stations as far out as Reading, Welwyn, the airports, Maidstone...essentially anything stopping Thameslink and Crossrail services will reach.

As a fellow South Hertfordshire ECMLer, I practically jumped for joy in my office when I saw it.

 

[jon0844]

Evening Standard mentioned St Albans and Guildford, but we already know from earlier discussions that it will include WGC and Hertford North. I presume it also means Hertford East too.

The paper says Boris wants to extend it further outside still. I wonder how they'll work out the fares, as I can't imagine they're going to extend the zones that far out (as in beyond stations like WGC). It would make sense to extend Oyster to cover the whole FCC route, and many other routes that terminate in London (non Intercity).