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Employment Rights Question

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AlterEgo

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Hello.

A hypothetical question:

Five people work in a shop, on tills. Takings for the day are stored in a safe and are banked at the end of each day. All five people have equal access to the safe.

One day the takings go missing, about £1,500. Quite a lot of money.

The shop owner undertakes an investigation, and concludes that one of the employees must have stolen the money. He has no idea which of the employees has done this.

He therefore fires all five of them, accusing each one of theft. Of course, he has no proof whatsoever that any of these individuals are actually responsible.

He does not call the police at any point.

Is this legal or illegal in employment law? What, if any, recourse do the employees have?

Informed answers only please.
 
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This is unfair dismissal as he/she has not followed the requisite employment guidelines.

On Monday speak with a specialist employment Solicitor (you should get a free consultation). If the owner has accused any person of being a thief in front of a witness then this will be treated as defamtion by default as damage is presumed and need not be proved. The only debate will be the quantum of the damages.
 

AlterEgo

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Thanks for the response.

Can I take pains to point out it's not me that is affected. :) (Thank God!)

I should add that the shop owner has first suspended all employees, investigated, interviewed and found no evidence of any individual having stolen the money. One of the five must be responsible though.

Paperwork wise, minutes have been taken from interviews, signed, agreed and copies sent to each party. They were then all fired.
 

Old Timer

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Thanks for the response.

Can I take pains to point out it's not me that is affected. :) (Thank God!)

I should add that the shop owner has first suspended all employees, investigated, interviewed and found no evidence of any individual having stolen the money. One of the five must be responsible though.

Paperwork wise, minutes have been taken from interviews, signed, agreed and copies sent to each party. They were then all fired.
Ah, that additional information does somewhat alter matters !

In this case it would be judged that a fair hearing had taken place, however it sounds as if the owner needs to modify their procedures, such as having a safe for staff use separate from the main safe, or some other form of procedure to protect both them and the staff.

I suggest the person concerned takes legal advice.
 

Clint

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If the shop owner also has access to the safe then there has been a crime committed with 6 suspects, not 5.

Why hasn't he called the police? If I were one of the 5 I would be taking legal advice as I have been fired without proof of wrongdoing and been given a mark on my employment record that will disuade future employers from hiring me.

Also the owner should have limited access to the safe as the situation was always going to lead to trouble once a dishonest person realised they could commit a crime and get others blamed for it.

If the owner had been canny (and was innocent) he should have said to each of the 5 during the interview that he was going to overlook the issue but fine them £300 each, and watched their reaction. The guilty party, if they were a bit thick, might have agreed as it would leave them £1200 up, whereas the innocents would probably have protested.

But definitely I would have gone to a solicitor.
 

AlterEgo

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Innocent until proven guilty?

This was my thought. However this is not a criminal case, it's an employment case and I'm interested to know the interpretation of the law.

I'm outraged that such a thing can happen, but I am unsure whether the shop owner is within his rights here.
 

richw

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In civil law (covers employment) there only has to be reasonable belief someone did it. If there is no evidence that clears any of the five he can reasonably believe they are all responsible.

The situation has arisen from poor procedures, either staff not following or not being in place in the first place. Everywhere I have worked only 1 person has access to safe at one time, when it is passed to someone else all contents is counted with previous safe holder and new safe holder. This narrows down to only 1 person being liable at one time!

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Clint

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If the employer's poor system has given the situation where 4 of the employees have been put in this position then isn't he liable for any of the blame? Also he is still a suspect himself, having access to the safe.

I still think it's "strange" that the employer chose not to involve the police.
 

richw

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It may be the procedures were in place for safe handover, and the employees didn't bother with the procedures. If we count our safe the person who lost the money is obvious, if no count both are liable for any missing money.
Also would insurance not require a cctv coverage of a safe?

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table38

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Also remember that usually an employer cannot make an unauthorised deduction from your wages (so wouldn't be able to, for example, make all the employees pay £300 each)

(Obviously that's a terrible oversimplification, see http://www.yourjobrights.co.uk/pay.htm#d or elsewhere on the web)
 

SwindonPkwy

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I think the other thing to point out is that if any of the employees have more than six months service, then they have a greater degree of protection.
 

ChrisCooper

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Theft is a criminal act, so it seems odd that the owner has not chosen to report the crime to the police, especially a large and blatent theft (it's not bits here and there in the hope nobody notices).

I think the workers need to take proper legal advice though. Not only could it have an effect on their ability to find work in future, but they could even have trouble claiming benefits, with benefits stopped for up to 26 weeks.

It seems highly unfair that the employer is punishing 4 innocent workers for what really comes down to their failing in not making sure that large amounts of money were secure, and also by not getting the police involved. Had the police got involved they would have had much greater powers to investigate, including obtaining search warrents for all staff (including if they felt the need, the owner's) homes, not only for the money but also for items that could have been bought with it (£1500 worth of brand new stuff and nothing to show legitimate money used is going to be good evidance), checking bank record to see if large amounts of money were deposited etc. Then again, perhaps that's it, had the police got involved they might have found no evidance the staff stole it but evidance that the owner infact was responsible.
 

DaveNewcastle

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I agree with OT that a discussion with a local Employment Solicitor is the best advice we can give on here, there are too many variables to give a clear answer to the prospects of sucess of any claim against the Employer.
A theft of this magnitude would clearly qualify as "gross misconduct" so an instant dismissal would be justified, but (and this is crucial) it is not a Theft but a suspected theft at present, and (unless all five were acting in collusion) innocent employees have evidentially been dismissed unfairly.

I still think it's "strange" that the employer chose not to involve the police.
I too am surprised that the Police were not contacted and whatever the reasons were, they give rise to further doubts. I'd suggest getting a little more background information about the employer to hand to the Solicitor which will inform the decisions that must be made.

Whilst this appears to be a straightforward 'unfair dismissal', I can add some cautions:
- What is the legal satus of the Employer? an individual, a Company, a Chain of a Listed Company, a Local Authority, a Charity etc? And do they have any previous convictions or employment tribunal judgements against them? Or even County Court Judgements? (This might inform any calculation of the prospects of success of each course of possible action).

- Is the Employer someone who can and would pay a fine (or a rogue who would just dissapear or an aristocrat who acts as if they are above the law or a large public or private body who can afford to delay such matters for years on end)? (I have been up against all three and they can be tiresome, expensive, slow and ultimately unsatisfactory).

Perhaps the Employer had failed to meet some of the conditions attached to their Insurance (if any) which might explain the hesitation in contacting the Police, if so, they have already been penalised to the sum of £1500, so will not be cheerfully disposed to a concilliation involving further expense. Someone who incurs a loss like this, then realises that their Insurance is unhelpful, then has to recruit 5 new staff members will feel more aggreived and possibly more aggressive towards any concilliation than you might expect.

This is actually quite a common occurrence in the Licensed trade, where Contracts of Employment tend to be biased in Employers' favour, and preferring short term part-time posts. I have been involved in a few in that sector and in the Public Sector, and regret to tell you that Employers behaving in this manner fall into two categories (whatever their public profile): those who, from the outset, show willingness to commit to a resolution (whether voluntarily or in litigation), and those who are not (which includes rogues, public bodies and millionaires). I'd be surprised if your 'friends' can't tell already in which category their Employer belongs - that should inform their decision to pursue action and the level of costs it would be reasonable to incur.

I shouldn't post any more on here other than vague generalisations, but if you wished to discuss by PM I'd be happy to assist as far as I can.

Referring to other contributors:
In civil law (covers employment) there only has to be reasonable belief someone did it. If there is no evidence that clears any of the five he can reasonably believe they are all responsible.
I cannot agree that this line of reasoning is adequate to secure an uncontestable dismissal.

If the employer's poor system has given the situation where 4 of the employees have been put in this position then isn't he liable for any of the blame? Also he is still a suspect himself, having access to the safe.
The employer has indeed incurred the liability - the money is gone.
Your point about 'poor' systems is well made and will surely be used in any attempt at a resolution or in litigation. His 'poor' procedures render the Employer culpable, even if not guilty.
Innocent until proven guilty?
Not relevant here. I have filing cabinets groaning full of examples to the contrary. As above, the licensed trade and agricultural industries appear to be the most active at present, followed by those without any contract (written or implied), and then, sadly, the Public Sector employers.
 
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Peter Mugridge

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Also would insurance not require a cctv coverage of a safe?

Not neccessarily, but I am certainly aware of insurance policies that require not more than two people to have access to a safe, so it probably depends on the specific insurance company and what they require.

But six people having access to the same safe?! That seems surprisingly high.

Another point; a safe engineer told me a couple of years ago that it was shocking how many businesses he visited to service their safes only to find they were still using the factory default combination.

I would therefore suggest that it would be worth asking if the safe from which the £1,500 went missing was still on the default combination or not. If it was, then it could not be regarded as secure.

Also, has it been checked whether any of the six people had the combination written down anywhere, especially if it was in a recognisable form?
 

AlterEgo

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Thank you for your answers, all.

A friend finds themselves in this position. I'm not at liberty to give any further details at present. However, this is a real situation, and I am grateful for the nuggets of information I've found here.

My friend is consulting with ACAS in depth on Monday (they have no Union). ACAS's initial reaction when they were called was to express surprise. The CAB have also been involved, and expressed surprise and horror at the situation, apparently.

The employer is a large company with whom we will all be very familiar, which is currently on an excercise to make sweeping redundancies, as they attempt to curtail the opening hours of many of their shops. I obviously won't name them in the interests of fairness. My friend, and most of the other affected employees, are in their late 50s and 60s and are effectively unemployable now, having around 50 years of service between them. It would also be very expensive to make them redundant.

I strongly suspect ulterior motives, however it remains a hard fact that this money has gone missing. A very depressing saga.
 

LCC106

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Hi AlterEgo

A terrible situation to be in but I can confirm that if an employer is unable to identify the culprit, in such circumstances as these where there is a doubt over trustworthiness it is reasonable to dismiss all employees with access to the safe on this occasion.

You say that staff were invited to meetings. There is a right to be accompanied by a trade union representative or work colleague to any meeting that may ultimately lead to dismissal. If the ACAS code was not followed (or company policy) then this is potentially unfair dismissal. Those affected would also have the right to appeal.

Here's a link to a useful booklet about disciplinaries http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=2179

Within the first 12 months of employment an employer can dismiss someone without having to give a written reason. Employees are only given additional protected rights if they fall within the stated categories such as disability discrimination, sex discrimination etc. Therefore, the idea of protected rights with over 6 months isn't quite correct.

Found a thread on another private member forum where £250 was taken from a petty cash tin. Someone suggests there may be case law on ("Coral book makers I think") where they dismissed everyone who had access to the petty cash tin.

As an employer who'd carried out reasonable investigations, I suspect dismissal for "Some Other Substantial Reason" may have been more apt. However, now you mention redundancies and ages and it doesn't look quite so straightforward...

Keep us posted how your friend gets on.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
After a bit more digging, just found that two shift managers were both dismissed from a Bookmakers after money went missing from the safe they both had access to, even though it could not be proven which of the two actually stole the money.

xperthr.co.uk states "In Monie v Coral Racing Ltd [1980] IRLR 464 CA, the Court of Appeal held that where an employer reasonably believes that one of two, or possibly both, employees are involved in dishonesty, but it is impossible for it to determine which of them is guilty, it may be reasonable to dismiss both of them, as long as the employer acts reasonably in all the circumstances of the case."

My interpretation of acting recently would be thorough investigation etc. and not just a blanket "You're fired"
 
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