Is any TOC more hated by its customers than Southeastern?

[YorkshireBear]

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Anyone who has ever worked with the British public in any profession will tell you this couldnt be further than the truth!!

+1! In the hotel i worked they certainly liked to complain!

MML are one of my favourite companies just because my first ever ride on a HST was one to london and on the master cutler

IN all serious though they set up trains to barsnley and a few other places and introduced turbostars. They did quite a lot of things for the MML and you can't forget that.

 

[Greenback]

+2. People are far more likely to complain these days compared to say 20 years ago. Or maybe it's more accurate to say that people moan a lot more now?!

 

[Harlesden]

On FCC's London-Welwyn/Hertford route, it cannot be said that any 6-car service runs half empty. Mid-afternoon, 6-car southbound services on the Hertford loop are fairly well patronised. Why do FCC persist in reducing the mid-morning/early afternoon service to 3-car trains which are often packed?
Is there any real saving in dividing a 6-car train into two after the morning peak, only to join it back together 3-4 hours later?

 

[Drimnagh Road]

Cross Country are the worse in my books, but the result of that hatred is really Virgin Cross Country, as it was their stupid small vomitters ordered by Branson that was passed on to Cross Country which causes the overcrowding misery.

 

[northwichcat]

+1! In the hotel i worked they certainly liked to complain!

+2. People are far more likely to complain these days compared to say 20 years ago. Or maybe it's more accurate to say that people moan a lot more now?!

People are more aware of consumer rights now and also people in work are working longer hours so more easily annoyed outside of work. While on the other hand there's a lot of people who can't get a job who have nothing better to do than complain.

From my experience of hotels abroad I think the hotel staff would prefer British tourists to American tourists. I experienced the live remake of the Fawlty Towers Waldorf Salad episode where some Americians were demanding that to a German waiter that they should be able to have something which wasn't offered on the menu.

 

[Greenback]

Yes, Americans complain more often, and a t a far higher volume than Brits! It's no surprise really that people are complaining mroe than they sued to - for many years TV programmes and newspapers have been telling us all that we don't complain enough!

I am all for it myself, as long as the complaints are not groundless, vexatious or vindictive against individuals. I would also like it if people praised good service as often as they complain!

 

[Schnellzug]

In my experience (admittedly, that experience is just from reading the local Paper), people seem to be much more likely to write, often painstakingly crafted and cuttingly satirical, but in the end completely pointless, letters to the local paper about complaints about the bus or rail service rather than actually complaining to the service provider themselves. I asume that it serves more the function of a safety valve rather than wanting to get any answers, explanations or improvements to the service that they complain about. Or perhaps, of course, they want to show it to their friends & colleagues and say "that's me, that is. Aren't you dazzled by my cuttingly satirical wit?". :roll:

 

[jon0844]

Is there any real saving in dividing a 6-car train into two after the morning peak, only to join it back together 3-4 hours later?

The loadings must vary a lot though, so you're probably right in the long run to just run as 6-car all day.

I've been on a train around 11am that I've walked through and it has just been me on it. So, me, the driver and possibly a colleague in the front or rear cab that I don't know about!

But at other times, it's pretty well loaded - especially when picking up and more and more people as it gets to Finsbury Park.

In reverse, by WGC the train may be near empty - but it had moved a lot of people who got off bit by bit along the way.

 

[SF-02]

Another day of many short formed trains on SE Trains. Around 20 were listed as short formed (generally 4 coaches) this evening affecting metro and mainline.

Sadly this is often a daily occurence for the past 6 months when the problems came on pretty rapidly. Still no answers as to why.

Been doing some reading. Last April charges may have gone up. This would mean southeastern would pay more for access charges, and capacity charges which apparently include electricity. Running short trains would save costs on both charges, and April was the time short formations became much more common.

Here's the list. http://archive.trainwatch.co.uk/orr/accesscharges/cp4/

Can anyone with more knowledge of what it all means get more out of it and exact savings by running short?

 

[HH]

The variable charges from Network Rail are:

* Variable Track Access - based on Vehicle Miles and which are charged by unit type
* Capacity Charge - based on Train Miles (so unaffected by short forming) which are based on line of route

The train will also incur fuel costs (Electric or Diesel) and Maintenance Costs, all of which are essentially per vehicle mile.

All in all then there's quite a lot to be saved by running short formed.

Note these costs (outside the cost of fuel) are set by the ORR in the 5 Year Control Periods. The last time they changed was 2.5 years ago.

 

[SF-02]

ANOTHER awful evening lined up with many short trains. Signals down between Charing Cross and London Bridge too. Not southeastern's fault that, but the short trains don't help at all and wont be able to cope with the mess.

 

[tbtc]

Another day of many short formed trains on SE Trains. Around 20 were listed as short formed (generally 4 coaches) this evening affecting metro and mainline.

Sadly this is often a daily occurence for the past 6 months when the problems came on pretty rapidly. Still no answers as to why

I'm not aware of any mechanical problem with SE EMUs, most of which are fairly modern (without getting into a north/south argument...), so presume that any short formed trains are because of the TOC (and less to do with the number of unit failures)

 

[TheJRB]

ANOTHER awful evening lined up with many short trains. Signals down between Charing Cross and London Bridge too. Not southeastern's fault that, but the short trains don't help at all and wont be able to cope with the mess.

I must say that I was quite amused/shocked that following all the talk of short trains that when I went to Ashford on Wednesday I saw that for the first time in a long time that I've been to Ashford almost all Victoria services were formed of six coaches (465+466) where I've usually seen them with the one 465.

 

[Minilad]

Better a short train than no train at all

 

[Southern]

I must say that I was quite amused/shocked that following all the talk of short trains that when I went to Ashford on Wednesday I saw that for the first time in a long time that I've been to Ashford almost all Victoria services were formed of six coaches (465+466) where I've usually seen them with the one 465.

Probably because it is occurring far more on the Metro lines. A quick look on the Service updates page on the Southeastern website each evening often shows half a dozen short formed services. The main reason given seems to be "train fault" and applies to services booked Electrostar as well as Networker. A common occurrence seems to be the absence of the 466 on the 10 - car evening workings to Gillingham. Then you have 465/0/1/2's on services booked for a 465/9, something that I observed on Thursday night at Ashford (1742 ex-Victoria).

 

[gazthomas]

£14.20 from Lancaster to Long Preston and back today. Filthy 144 in both directions.

Do Northern have any carriage washers as every train is filthy outside.

No bargain.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

I don't know why but this time of year brings out the horrible brown dirt on our trains! They still get washed the same amount of times, the diagrams are not changed but this happens every year, all I can do is put it down to the extra dew/condensation/water in the air this time of year, (apart from the last couple of years when the washers have been frozen for 2 months)

 

[Southern]

Just noticed this on the Southeastern website:

19:42 St Pancras International to Ramsgate due 20:59

This train has been delayed and is expected to be 15 minutes late from St Pancras International.
This is due to disruptive passengers earlier.

This seems to appear as a reason for delays quite often, not just with Southeastern but with all TOC's. My guess is always football crowd/drunks but this can't always be the case. The only other things I can think of is overcrowding or something/someone obstructing the doors. Shame if passengers are being labelled "disruptive" just because the TOC couldn't provide enough accommodation.

 

[87015]

Just noticed this on the Southeastern website:

19:42 St Pancras International to Ramsgate due 20:59

This train has been delayed and is expected to be 15 minutes late from St Pancras International.
This is due to disruptive passengers earlier.

This seems to appear as a reason for delays quite often, not just with Southeastern but with all TOC's. My guess is always football crowd/drunks but this can't always be the case. The only other things I can think of is overcrowding or something/someone obstructing the doors. Shame if passengers are being labelled "disruptive" just because the TOC couldn't provide enough accommodation.

Magic box says due to awaiting inward stock off the 19.51 arrival (4 late), which is showing as delayed due to being held for a late running eurostar, no sign of any passenger incidents.

 

[EM2]

...This is due to disruptive passengers earlier.

This seems to appear as a reason for delays quite often, not just with Southeastern but with all TOC's. My guess is always football crowd/drunks but this can't always be the case...

Quite often, it's customers giving on-board staff grief, so the train is held for police attendance.

 

[northwichcat]

£14.20 from Lancaster to Long Preston and back today. Filthy 144 in both directions.

Do Northern have any carriage washers as every train is filthy outside.

No bargain.

The Northern DMUs don't seem to get cleaned as often as the 323s, which are homed at Longsight.

 

[TrenHotel]

When you don't talk to your passengers honestly, they start to suspect something's up.

And something's definitely up with Southeastern's short-formed trains.

http://www.southeasternrailway-forum.co.uk/2011/11/short-formed-trains-are-short-formed.html

 

[ralphchadkirk]

http://www.southeasternrailway-forum.co.uk/2011/11/short-formed-trains-are-short-formed.html

That blog sometimes isn't work the virtual paper it's written on. They would prefer to look for a conspiracy in everything rather than look at the simple reason.

 

[TrenHotel]

That blog sometimes isn't work the virtual paper it's written on. They would prefer to look for a conspiracy in everything rather than look at the simple reason.

Yes, as always, it's the passenger's fault. Silly passenger.

 

[lookingforit35]

That blog sometimes isn't work the virtual paper it's written on. They would prefer to look for a conspiracy in everything rather than look at the simple reason.

I dont particularly rate Southeastern but really! This chap's blog is quite a rant. He seems to positively enjoy writing to the TOC, copying in his MP etc, then gets annoyed when they raise the volume of his complaints making matters tricky to follow.

 

[ginger]

Looks like Abelio Greater Anglia maybe coming up on the rails and they havent even taken over yet......

Getting rid of 15 units on the GE mainline now confirmed in the news tonight.....

and almost ZERO improvement for passengers in the standards of trains in the well thought out, very long 29 month franchise.....

They may very well have SERIOUSLY underestimated the simmering hatred towards operators who take the p**s out of passengers such as NX....

Abelio Greater Anglia the new National Express???????

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Yes, as always, it's the passenger's fault. Silly passenger.

You know damn well that isn't what I said.

 

[TrenHotel]

I dont particularly rate Southeastern but really! This chap's blog is quite a rant. He seems to positively enjoy writing to the TOC, copying in his MP etc, then gets annoyed when they raise the volume of his complaints making matters tricky to follow.

Silly passenger! Getting all angry when he should just lie back and take it!

I make the point again. Without honest communication from Southeastern, what are its passengers meant to think?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Without honest communication from Southeastern, what are its passengers meant to think?

And pray when have they been dishonest? In making such a bold statement it is only, ahem, honest, to have some form of objective evidence.

 

[MikeWh]

Last night was pretty diabolical. 4-car train to Gravesend on the half-hourly service that was always likely to pick up the supporters from two top football matches (Arsenal and Palace). I only managed to get on at New Cross by running at the doorway just as the warning beeps started. I can't be sure but there may have been passengers left behind, it really was that full.