Class 225

[route:oxford]

In the last 10 years we've seen classes 220, 221 & 222 arrive in service in the UK.

If the sequence follows through, we will eventually reach class 225...

Given that the Class 91 & Mk4s are occasionally referred to as a 225 (and more rarely Electras), is it likely that a Class 225 would be skipped to avoid confusion?

 

[gordonthemoron]

I'm looking forward to class 666

 

[Eagle]

I hope they do make a class 225.

It'll stop people using "225" to mean a 91-hauled service, which looks horribly confusing. It was a failed (and, due to speed restrictions, inaccurate) brandname from the long-dead days of BR.

 

[Schnellzug]

this does bring to mind a Question i've been wondering; what will the IEP (assuming that the currently envisaged version does go ahead) be classified? Will they be EMUs, DMUs or EDMUs? And if so, what will they call them? Will they start a new category for dual mode MUs?

 

[ainsworth74]

It'll stop people using "225" to mean a 91-hauled service, which looks horribly confusing.

How is it confusing?

 

[Eagle]

this does bring to mind a Question i've been wondering; what will the IEP (assuming that the currently envisaged version does go ahead) be classified? Will they be EMUs, DMUs or EDMUs? And if so, what will they call them? Will they start a new category for dual mode MUs?

6xx for bimodes? Although in reality I reckon that they'll get 2xx numbers because DEMUs aren't especially common; and all the ones currently in service may well become bimodal if the DfT actually takes up Bombardier's offer of adding pantographs to the Voyagers and Meridians.

 

[HSTEd]

225 is a lot easier than saying a "BR Class 91 and BR Mark 4 combination"

Also it is probably unlikely that we will see any further classes in the 22x series due to the fact that that range seems to be reserved purely for Voyager derived units, of which there is unlikely to be further construction.

 

[ainsworth74]

225 is a lot easier than saying a "BR Class 91 and BR Mark 4 combination"

Indeed! Hence why I would like to know what's confusing about 225 or IC225?

Also it is probably unlikely that we will see any further classes in the 22x series due to the fact that that range seems to be reserved purely for Voyager derived units, of which there is unlikely to be further construction.

Well I think it's a bit early to say that the 22x range is only going to be for Voyagers and their ilk as we've not built anything that would suit 2xx since them!

 

[Eagle]

Indeed! Hence why I would like to know what's confusing about 225 or IC225?

Precisely because 225 looks like a DEMU of the Voyager family. Look, I'm 21, I'm not old enough to remember InterCity's branding exercises...

 

[HSTEd]

Precisely because 225 looks like a DEMU of the Voyager family. Look, I'm 21, I'm not old enough to remember InterCity's branding exercises...

You aren't?
I am also 21 and I remember the last days of InterCity Swallow quite well

I suppose you dont call a 125 a 125 either? :P

 

[Eagle]

You aren't?
I am also 21 and I remember the last days of InterCity Swallow quite well

Not everyone here was a railfan at age six Barely even interested till I was about 17, myself.

And I call a 125 a HST, like most people seem to.

 

[ainsworth74]

Look, I'm 21, I'm not old enough to remember InterCity's branding exercises...

So am I and hadn't even heard of Intercity till I years after it's death

But fair enough I suppose it might confusing for some but if someone says 225 on here then to me at least they are clearly referring to a Intercity 225 not some prospective DEMU

 

[Eagle]

So am I and hadn't even heard of Intercity till I years after it's death

Oh. I assumed you were 37, based on your username

 

[ainsworth74]

Oh. I assumed you were 37, based on your username

I hadn't thought that the number at the end of my name might lead people to think that but now that you mention it does rather suggest that doesn't it

Anyway, we're starting to wander off topic here so in an attempt to drag us back, I think the use of 225 for a DEMU will depend on whether the industry itself refers to the trains in question as 225s, if they do then I suspect it will be skipped to help avoid confusion. However, if they do not and instead refer to them as 91s+Mk4s or something similar then I guess the number will be given to a DEMU class.

 

[brad465]

If a class 225 was brought in, I think it would cause not much confusion between people who know speed from class, and if the trin was not any kind of high speed train.

 

[Nym]

Maybe we should just call them Electra sets then?

 

[sprinterguy]

But "Electra" only referred to the class 91s themselves, as far as I know, rather than the whole formation. Calling the sets "225s" seems perfectly acceptable to me, it's much less of a mouthful than "class 91+mark 4 rake".

We could refer to them as APT-U, given that that is what they are a development of before BR decided to change the brand name to get away from the negative connotations and bad press associated with the APT programme.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You aren't?
I am also 21 and I remember the last days of InterCity Swallow quite well

Indeed, I'm 21 as well and I can remember nearly new 225s at Newcastle, surely only a couple of years after the wires went live.

 

[junglejames]

Precisely because 225 looks like a DEMU of the Voyager family. Look, I'm 21, I'm not old enough to remember InterCity's branding exercises...

What? You are kidding?
Intercity 225, compared to class 22x.
Quite different id have thought.
Anyway, Intercity 225 came first, so if you think the two could be confused, I suggest the class 22xs are given a different class number. So because i am such a nice person, from now on, just for Eagle, I will refer to the 22x's as 23x's

Also, how is it a failed brandname. The fact they are still called 225s shows it wasnt much of a failure. During the whole time they have been called 225s, the new brandname 'Mallard' has come, and now virtually gone. That, as much as it pains me to say it, was more of a failure. Plus, right up until the limiters were put on, they were capable of 225KPH. They may not have done it in service, but they were capable of doing it, and that was why they were called 225.

 

[Eagle]

What? You are kidding?
Intercity 225, compared to class 22x.
Quite different id have thought.

I meant the name "225" looks similar to 220, 221 and 222. Not the train, obviously. And remember I've only given a damn about trains since, what, 2008?

And it's only enthusiasts who still call them 225s. It's just a nickname now, like "shed" (which I have no idea which loco that refers to). Show me where Netork Rail, the Dft, National Rail or East Coast use the name "225" to describe them.

Also, sarcasm is really helpful :P Can we have less of the newbie-bashing please kthxbai.

 

[Schnellzug]

Who are they called 225 by? Does the average man, person or woman in the street call them thus? Do even the majority of Enthusiasts, Gricers or Bashers call them that? Wasn't it just a slightly contrived attempt by BR to cash in on the success of the 125s by referring to the design maximum speed (never used in service) in km/h? Do people still use this contrivance of BR's PR department?

 

[route:oxford]

Who are they called 225 by? Does the average man, person or woman in the street call them thus? Do even the majority of Enthusiasts, Gricers or Bashers call them that? Wasn't it just a slightly contrived attempt by BR to cash in on the success of the 125s by referring to the design maximum speed (never used in service) in km/h? Do people still use this contrivance of BR's PR department?

The term "225" still crops up regularily in these forums.

 

[Eagle]

The term "225" still crops up regularily in these forums.

So that's enthusiasts, check. Anyone else?

 

[yorkie]

So that's enthusiasts, check. Anyone else?

On board announcements.

 

[theblackwatch]

How many thousands of people confused HSTs with Suburban DMUs that ran out of King's Cross? The concept is exactly the same.

 

[43021HST]

I hope they do make a class 225.

It'll stop people using "225" to mean a 91-hauled service, which looks horribly confusing. It was a failed (and, due to speed restrictions, inaccurate) brandname from the long-dead days of BR.

225 is a short snappy name that appeals to the public, We still call Class 43s HSTs or IC125s in some cases. I think its partly the name that has made these locos, both the IC125 and IC225 british icons are probably on the same level as the routemaster.
Confusion over what? A class of train that doesnt even exist.

 

[Liam]

Why do we call HST's HST's? There are even higher speed trains operating on our railways today.

 

[route:oxford]

Why do we call HST's HST's? There are even higher speed trains operating on our railways today.

Even Higher Speed Trains would be EHSTs.
Higher Still Speed Trains would be HSSTs

 

[Liam]

Or we could rename the HST's to HSBNAHSASOT's (High Speed, But Not As High Speed As Some Other Train's).

 

[Rhydgaled]

And I call a 125 a HST, like most people seem to.

HST, which stands for High Speed Train, and therefore could apply to Intercity 125s, Intercity 225s, Eurostars, Voyagers, class 180s and class 222s, to name but a few. To be brutally clear what rolling stock one is refering to, without using the IC125 and IC225 tags, you'd have to refer to class 43 power cars and mark 3 coaches and class 91 locomotives with mark 4 coaches. Very long winded if you ask me, much better to use the IC125 and IC225 brand names.

 

[junglejames]

I meant the name "225" looks similar to 220, 221 and 222. Not the train, obviously. And remember I've only given a damn about trains since, what, 2008?

And it's only enthusiasts who still call them 225s. It's just a nickname now, like "shed" (which I have no idea which loco that refers to). Show me where Netork Rail, the Dft, National Rail or East Coast use the name "225" to describe them.

Also, sarcasm is really helpful :P Can we have less of the newbie-bashing please kthxbai.

Oh I know what you meant. But i just cant see the confusion. Reason being, 225 is only half the name, and 22x is only half. The former has Intercity in front of it, and the others all have the word 'class' in front. But it doesnt matter now. Class 22x no longer exists in my eyes. Class 23x from now on.

Intercity 225 isnt just a nickname like 'Shed' either. 'Shed' is one of those silly names made up by enthusiats (90% of the time made up by people that dont like them), whilst IC225 is an official BR name for the train set.
It is still used from time to time officially. Onboard announcements being one of them.