X Car Stop signs not at stations

[davelew99]

On my way home today i noticed that after Rock Ferry station (toward Birkenhead) there was a 3Car Stop sign and a 6 car stop sign in between Rock Ferry and Green Lane station.

Since i've never noticed them before i wouldn't have thought they exist from the old Tranmere station (that and they look new).

So what are they for? (Or have i got this wrong and they are used in lots of places that arn't stations?)

My only suggestion is that it marks how far they have to take the train forward before being able to reverse into platforms 3/4 at Rock Ferry.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

They are quite literally markers as to where the train should stop. They are for shunting, and fairly common.

 

[142094]

Often you might see it for ECS moves where a driver has to change ends - helps to ensure that the full length of the train is past a signal too.

 

[First class]

Merseyrail has 3 and 6 car markers all over the network.

1) All stations have them
2) Where you see 3W or 6W that is the wash plant stopping point.
3) Lineside, they are either for:
Stopping at signal positions
Overnight stabling
Clear of "points" crossing over markers

That said, 9 and 12 carriage ECS movements are not uncommon, but the 6-car marker is used.

The longest Merseyrail consist was incidentally 15-car in the Winter last year, with passengers in the first 2 6-car units. The first had failed in the tunnels, so the 6 behind was sent to couple up. That didn't work, and for whatever reason, Control decided to send in a 3-car to rescue a 12-car... incidentally it worked eventually as the leading 6-car actually self corrected.

 

[davelew99]

Cool, thanks for the info. I'd seen them at stations plenty of times and knew what they were for, i just hadn't seen them anywhere else.

In this case, it will be for clearing the points to allow reversing into Rock Ferry plat 3/4.

Interesting on the 15 car in the tunnel, i hadn't given it much thought before but what would be used to rescue a stricken train in a mersey tunnel?

 

[First class]

Cool, thanks for the info. I'd seen them at stations plenty of times and knew what they were for, i just hadn't seen them anywhere else.

In this case, it will be for clearing the points to allow reversing into Rock Ferry plat 3/4.

Interesting on the 15 car in the tunnel, i hadn't given it much thought before but what would be used to rescue a stricken train in a mersey tunnel?

You just keep sending in 3-car units until it can move.

If something extreme happened then you would summons the battery tug shunter from Kirkdale to pull to the depot.

 

[507 001]

You just keep sending in 3-car units until it can move.

If something extreme happened then you would summons the battery tug shunter from Kirkdale to pull to the depot.

would that make it all the way into the tunnel and back? considering how seep the tunnel is?
All that tug is used for is pushing units into and out of the wheel lathe, all other shunting AFAIK is done under own power, or using another unit.

 

[First class]

would that make it all the way into the tunnel and back? considering how seep the tunnel is?
All that tug is used for is pushing units into and out of the wheel lathe, all other shunting AFAIK is done under own power, or using another unit.

It can pull a 12 car on a flat section, so should be capable of pulling a 3-car on a steeper section. The tug isn't mainline certified though afaik, so special dispensation would have to be given anyway.

I think Merseyrail would do well to get a 73 or 92 Thunderbird, especially given the reliability of the current fleet will only get worse as the age becomes apparent.

Loads of Cl.92s are stored aren't they?

 

[sprinterguy]

I think Merseyrail would do well to get a 73 or 92 Thunderbird, especially given the reliability of the current fleet will only get worse as the age becomes apparent.

Loads of Cl.92s are stored aren't they?

Good grief, can you imagine the power draw on the Merseyrail juice from a 92?hock: That'd certainly ensure that nothing else was moving in the same electrical section, and probably make all the lights in Birkenhead go dim as well!

Maybe it was mistaken short term thinking for Merseyrail to get rid of their four 73s.

 

[507 001]

Good grief, can you imagine the power draw on the Merseyrail juice from a 92?hock: That'd certainly ensure that nothing else was moving in the same electrical section, and probably make all the lights in Birkenhead go dim as well!

Maybe it was mistaken short term thinking for Merseyrail to get rid of their four 73s.

a 92 would probably blow every rectifier and supply on the network!!

getting rid of the 73's was definately a mistake, although by the end of their time on ME they were in a pretty dire state.

AFAIK they never actually coupled up to a 507/8 though, I don't even know wheter they actually can, is a drophead buckeye not slightly different to a tightlock? tightlocks always look considerably bigger!

 

[First class]

a 92 would probably blow every rectifier and supply on the network!!

getting rid of the 73's was definately a mistake, although by the end of their time on ME they were in a pretty dire state.

AFAIK they never actually coupled up to a 507/8 though, I don't even know wheter they actually can, is a drophead buckeye not slightly different to a tightlock? tightlocks always look considerably bigger!

I don't think a 92 would do anything harmful if used correctly. Powering up to 4MW would cripple the network. I'm sure a mod could be done to REDUCE the amount of power quite easily.

You'd only want it to do 10mph pushing/pulling a stranded unit somewhere... may as well get 2 out of storage and convert them, especially for when a new fleet (eventually) arrives.

Class 73s must have been compatible with the 507/8 because they were used to shunt units about, as well as sandite and route learning.

Merseyrail need something as a thunderbird that's for sure. 3rd Rail in the middle of diesel/OHE land... rapidly ageing rolling stock, maintenance funds maybe not as generous as a few years ago, harsher winters.... When one fails at a strategic location, e.g. around Allerton/Hunts Cross, it can send delays up to Scotland, Yorkshire, Manchester, Norwich!!!

If 1 thunderbird was obtained (of any class), it should go in Liverpool Central Reverser Siding (to access both Northern/Wirral lines).

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....AFAIK they never actually coupled up to a 507/8 though, I don't even know wheter they actually can, is a drophead buckeye not slightly different to a tightlock? tightlocks always look considerably bigger!

Tightlocks are bigger, but it is possible to couple them to buckeyes as 319s (tightlock) were able to do so with southern slam door stock (buckeye) to help clear the line.

 

[brad465]

Are they car stop signs designed for specific trains or will stations involving varied train lengths just have to go by the "S" stop sign?

 

[First class]

Are they car stop signs designed for specific trains or will stations involving varied train lengths just have to go by the "S" stop sign?

3 and 6 car are for 507 and 508.

S is anything.