Varied Platform Lengths in Opposite Directions

[bb21]

I was just looking at Book 4 of the Railway Track Diagrams and noticed something slightly strange.

Platform 1 at Carlisle station is recorded as being 16 carriages long in the Up direction, yet only 12 carriages long in the Down direction. Similarly Platform 3 is recorded as 13 Up and 15 Down, and Platform 4 is 17 Up and 19 Down.

Excuse me for an amateurish question. I would think that the platform is the same length whichever way you measure it, or have I missed something obvious? All the concrete that amounts to the length of a few carriages surely does not mysteriously disappear when looking the other way, does it?

Why?

 

[WatcherZero]

Assuming they are bi-directional platforms, signal placement.

 

[ChampsRacing]

Some of our platforms on SWT are similar, on the down direction a 8 car 455 fits in but a 8 car 450 has to sdo, but on the up both 455s and 450s fit in fine. But thats mainly down to the limitations of bridges etc if you dont include Datchet that is.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I think one of Bolton's and one of Manc'r Oxford Rd's are like that too.

 

[SteamPower]

One of Loughborough's is currently like this, platforms in the process of being lengthened though

 

[bb21]

Assuming they are bi-directional platforms, signal placement.

Some of our platforms on SWT are similar, on the down direction a 8 car 455 fits in but a 8 car 450 has to sdo, but on the up both 455s and 450s fit in fine. But thats mainly down to the limitations of bridges etc if you dont include Datchet that is.

Yes that makes sense.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Having checked, Bolton p1&3, Manchester Oxford Rd p3, Skipton p3&4 and Crewe p6 are also in a similar situation. I can't find any evidence of them on the Western or Southern Regions, and will check the rest of the Eastern / Scottish regions now

 

[Invincibles]

Does Crewe platform 6 change length depending on where you are going? The signal controlling the line to Manchester is certainly placed before the end of the structure. There is also a signal at the end of the platform structure for trains that continue along the line. Is it possible for a very long train to continue to the end of the platform (most trains do not benefit from doing so)

It may be a silly question, if so then sorry.

 

[northwichcat]

Platform 3 at Carlisle is the platform in this picture with the freight train next to it. The photo has been taken looking northbound.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/sjp/CAR/images/photos/800/o1416-0000090.jpg

If you look at the central track between the two platforms, there's a facility allowing a northbound train at platform 3 to go to that central track, which is before the end of the platform. Presumably there is a signal there as WatcherZero has suggested, which means a northbound train has to stop behind the signal, which explains a two carriage difference.

 

[Crossover]

Does Crewe platform 6 change length depending on where you are going? The signal controlling the line to Manchester is certainly placed before the end of the structure. There is also a signal at the end of the platform structure for trains that continue along the line. Is it possible for a very long train to continue to the end of the platform (most trains do not benefit from doing so)

It may be a silly question, if so then sorry.

Not sure on change of direction but certainly in the down direction there are two sets of signals, one near the bridge (or not far beyond it) and one at the very north end of the platform.

Speaking to one of the dispatchers at Crewe a couple of years ago (me and my friend were waiting for a train and were watching him dispatch another one - he saw us and explained to us quite a few things) and the very end one would be used for the likes of the sleeper, which takes up the full length of the platform. The one nearer is used for the local services. As for the Pendolinos, I'm not entirely sure which one they would use

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Platform 3 at Carlisle is the platform in this picture with the freight train next to it. The photo has been taken looking northbound.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/sjp/CAR/images/photos/800/o1416-0000090.jpg

If you look at the central track between the two platforms, there's a facility allowing a northbound train at platform 3 to go to that central track, which is before the end of the platform. Presumably there is a signal there as WatcherZero has suggested, which means a northbound train has to stop behind the signal, which explains a two carriage difference.

Northbound trains can use the full platform length, but southbound traffic can't block the signal / crossover onto the 'B' Up & Down Goods, the westernmost through road under the shed.

 

[455driver]

Probably (as stated above) because the signal at 1 end is right on the end of the platform but the signal at the other end is further back from the end of the platform, there are several reasons for this, level crossings and points are the 2 most obvious ones.

Platform 2 at Guildford is like that, 12 coaches down but only 8 on the up because the signal is set back from the end.

 

[route:oxford]

I'm sure Dunblane Station Northbound (both platforms 2&3) are shorter than Platform one Southbound.

This could well be why the once-weekly EC HST only stops Southbound. Many years ago the Kings Cross service stopped at Dunblane daily on both the up and down services.

On the other hand, EC HSTs have been lengthened since BR days and it could well be the steep gradient out of Dunblane northbound would result in a significant time loss should one power car be out of service.

 

[Invincibles]

Not sure on change of direction but certainly in the down direction there are two sets of signals, one near the bridge (or not far beyond it) and one at the very north end of the platform.

Speaking to one of the dispatchers at Crewe a couple of years ago (me and my friend were waiting for a train and were watching him dispatch another one - he saw us and explained to us quite a few things) and the very end one would be used for the likes of the sleeper, which takes up the full length of the platform. The one nearer is used for the local services. As for the Pendolinos, I'm not entirely sure which one they would use

Yes, I was thinking of the down direction.

Pretty sure I have only ever seen Pendolinos going Preston bound stopping at the first signal near the bridge. However, few stop now so it is a real test of memory for someone who does not go to Crewe often.

Just I was there last week and got a last minute swap over to 6 from 5 on the Manchester bound Pendolino.

 

[tirphil]

Platform 3 at Carlisle is the platform in this picture with the freight train next to it. The photo has been taken looking northbound.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/sjp/CAR/images/photos/800/o1416-0000090.jpg

If you look at the central track between the two platforms, there's a facility allowing a northbound train at platform 3 to go to that central track, which is before the end of the platform. Presumably there is a signal there as WatcherZero has suggested, which means a northbound train has to stop behind the signal, which explains a two carriage difference.

A northbound train on platform 3 cannot gain B road (the central track as you identify it). Platform 3 is the down main. B and C roads converge with the down main just by the end of platform 3

 

[dzug2]

The new platform at Honeybourne for up trains is significantly longer than the old one which now serves down trains only

 

[ChrisCooper]

Sometimes platforms will be shorter or staggered due to the former location of goods yards. I can think of some locations where one platform extends right up to an overbridge, wheras the other platform is set back as it used to be where the access to the goods yard was. Another reason might be an overbridge or underbridge that is at an angle, pushing one platform further back than the others. Where lengths are different it's usually because in the past it was totally acceptable to have trains stopping with carriages off the ends of platforms, so one platform was built to maximum normal length and the other was shorter and most trains hung off the end. In many cases train lengths have reduced over the years so now the short platform is perfectly adequate and the long platform never sees trains to it's length, or only a few long trains call and have grandfathers rights so the short platform is still fine. In other cases the short platform will have been extended (often the longer platform will have been extended at the same time) leading to the platforms being staggered.

 

[Deerfold]

I'm sure Dunblane Station Northbound (both platforms 2&3) are shorter than Platform one Southbound.

This could well be why the once-weekly EC HST only stops Southbound. Many years ago the Kings Cross service stopped at Dunblane daily on both the up and down services.

On the other hand, EC HSTs have been lengthened since BR days and it could well be the steep gradient out of Dunblane northbound would result in a significant time loss should one power car be out of service.

Indeed - that's rather more common than what's being talked about here - other examples include Shipley 3/4 which is why the EC trains use platform 3 in both directions and Shipley 1/2 where EC only stop Southbound.