rough riding on East coast when 225's did 140mph in mid 90's

[cambsy]

i remember when the 225's did 140 mph and really hammered it,once between Newcastle and Edinburgh,had a cup of coffee fly off table as we took curve rather too hard and fast had a 37 rail tour going rather fast between Cardiff and Swansea which was bouncy,has anyone got stories of over exuberant running and speeding?

 

[Barrett M95]

140mph between Newcastle and Edinburgh? Really?

I thought it was just a trial between Peterborough and Grantham with the flashing green aspect that signified 140.

Anyway - that doesn't answer your question...

 

[Harlesden]

I've often wondered what it's like using the facilities on a Pendelino when it's going round a sharpish curve

 

[ainsworth74]

As Barret said the 140mph running was only on a short section of the south ECML with flashing green acting as a fifth signalling aspect that allowed for 140mph running. There was never any testing north of Newcastle and I'm not sure if there is much 125mph running north of Newcastle anyway so you would struggle to get 140mph!

 

[Spaceflower]

There was reports of a rough section of track near Dunbar a few years back now. I doubt you wouldve been going anywhere near 140mph though.

Having said that, wasn't there a bad crash at Morpeth due to speeding a few decades ago?

 

[swt_passenger]

I don't think they ever ran in passenger service at 140 mph. Trials only.

 

[DarloRich]

i remember when the 225's did 140 mph and really hammered it,once between Newcastle and Edinburgh,had a cup of coffee fly off table as we took curve rather too hard and fast had a 37 rail tour going rather fast between Cardiff and Swansea which was bouncy,has anyone got stories of over exuberant running and speeding?

WOW - 140 mph between Newcastle and Edinburgh. We have really gone backwards havent we. I think there are only a dew sections of 125mph running between Newcastle and Edinburgh. It really is a disgrace FFS :roll::roll::roll:

 

[ainsworth74]

Having said that, wasn't there a bad crash at Morpeth due to speeding a few decades ago?

There have been several accidents at Morpeth the last three of which were due to speeding.

See here.

 

[Spaceflower]

Yeah, Ive just found it, cheers.

 

[kevincoy]

Seem to recall riding on a 321 between B'ham International and Coventry non-stop which was doing a fair old rate of knots.

Certainly got chucked around on it that's for sure!

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Interestingly, the 'Fifth Aspect' flashing greens are still there between Stoke and Tallington.

WOW - 140 mph between Newcastle and Edinburgh. We have really gone backwards havent we. I think there are only a dew sections of 125mph running between Newcastle and Edinburgh.

Yes. North of Newcastle, there's four short stretches of 125 runing in the 30 miles between Alnmouth and Berwick and another four short stretches in the 30 miles between Innerwick (nr. Cockburnspath) and Wallyford (nr. Edinburgh). That's it. Anyway, with so many speed restrictions for Level Crossings and a couple of hills southbound, the 125 permission is rather unhelpful.
People sometimes forget that the slow speeds (typically 75mph round Grantshouses to Innerwick) are not only on tight curves but are as steep as, and higher than, the ECML's Stoke summit in Lincolnshire.

 

[cambsy]

i timed 225's doing 140mph south of Newcastle,main places were Darlington-York,York-Doncaster,Newark-Grantham,Stoke Bank,Huntingdon-Hitchin,may have got 130 odd Newcastle-Edinburgh also seen 133mph in Railway Magazine Practice and Performance,timed 225 doing 140mph several times had logs of it,lost them now,anyone had similar runs or overspeeding?

 

[DarloRich]

i timed 225's doing 140mph south of Newcastle,main places were Darlington-York,York-Doncaster,Newark-Grantham,Stoke Bank,Huntingdon-Hitchin,may have got 130 odd Newcastle-Edinburgh also seen 133mph in Railway Magazine Practice and Performance,timed 225 doing 140mph several times had logs of it,lost them now,anyone had similar runs or overspeeding?

no you didnt - unless you were on a special test train :roll:

 

[notadriver]

Seen quite a few logs of fast runs in the old days but such things are in the past. The Morpeth curve probably has overspeed loops protecting it so further accidents are unlikely.

 

[cambsy]

wasn't special train or record attempt,was back in mid 90's when there was so much technology to stop speeding,just looking at timings train did once could tell when they were hammering it,and they certainly did,especially the flyers,and 135-140mph was quite common then,I'm not lying and logs exist of those sort of speeds on normal service trains

 

[DarloRich]

wasn't special train or record attempt,was back in mid 90's when there was so much technology to stop speeding,just looking at timings train did once could tell when they were hammering it,and they certainly did,especially the flyers,and 135-140mph was quite common then,I'm not lying and logs exist of those sort of speeds on normal service trains

ok; produce some evidence and i will believe you. Until then...............

 

[SouthStand]

Fairly easy to see any over-speeding nowadays, a lot of people carry iPhones with GPS.

 

[Eagle]

i timed 225's doing 140mph south of Newcastle,main places were Darlington-York,York-Doncaster,Newark-Grantham,Stoke Bank,Huntingdon-Hitchin,may have got 130 odd Newcastle-Edinburgh also seen 133mph in Railway Magazine Practice and Performance,timed 225 doing 140mph several times had logs of it,lost them now,anyone had similar runs or overspeeding?

How did you time it? Mileposts? (The last time I tried that I estimated that a 220 was doing 115 mph north of Solihull...)

 

[rail-britain]

I worked on InterCity East Coast when the Class 91 and Mark 4 coaches were new
As above, there was no change in speed limit compared to the HST, limited to 125mph

There was a known problem with the speedo in the Mark 4 DVT, but it was found to underread not overread so running slower than 125mph is more likely
This was often reported a few days after first diagnosed and then repaired overnight

It is possible that inaccurate average speeds are recorded, I used to get this quite often when working these out from viewing mile post markers
I noted a HST at 135mph between Newcastle and York, when travelling back passenger
However the following mile was 126mph, suggesting I misread the *** 3/4 marker
When I got back to Edinburgh I obtained copies of the timing and confirmed the HST never exceeded 128mph

 

[SouthEastern-465]

Not getting into the argument, but max I've seen a IC225 do in passenger service is around 129 max.

Even when it did do 140mph the route had to be specially cleared and prepared on certain sections for it to be safe.

 

[scotsman]

Fairly easy to see any over-speeding nowadays, a lot of people carry iPhones with GPS.

Does anyone know the margin of error on smartphone GPS? Without going into details, I once saw a surprising speed which was a enough above the limit to surprise me. PM me if you want more details

 

[Peter Mugridge]

When the Mk4s were new ( early 1990s ) they rode rather rougher than expected; this was solved after about 4 or 5 years by the simple expedient of turning the bogies round underneath every carriage.

That roughly matches the "mid 1990s" mention, so I'd suggest it was simply experience of riding on unmodified sets which gave the impression of higher speeds in the early days.

( Personally I preferred riding on them in the original condition... )


As to the GPS; the margin of error for any decent GPS unit is supposed to be +/- 1%, but that does depend on a clean signal being received - if the receiver is not right up against a window, the margin could be greater, especially if not in a flat landscape area.

I would guess, though, that a mobile phone GPS is less accurate than a dedicated GPS unit.

 

[Lampshade]

I've often wondered what it's like using the facilities on a Pendelino when it's going round a sharpish curve

I've 'used the facilities' on a Pendolino heading down the Trent Valley at 125mph, it was none too pleasant hock:

 

[NightatLaira]

I remember seeing a Look North news program in about 1995ish with an 'Intercity East Coast' 91+mk4s unit doing a speed run as a one-off; I seem to remember seeing a special handheld digital odometer being shown in the driver's cab reading 151mph in very distinctive red seven-segmented digital figures which is not the fastest they ever did (162mph in 1989 when they were all new)... but it was faster than normal running speed and they got special permission to do it. Passengers were being interviewed about what it was like to be doing 150mph as they were disembarking at York station.

So the bottom line is, whatever anyone else may be saying, there have been normal (non-test train) passenger services operating at 125mph+ in the past on the ECML, but not recently.

 

[jon0844]

I personally sat on a GNER Mk4 coming back from Edinburgh and had GPS confirm almost 140mph north of Peterborough, in an attempt to make up time (we'd been delayed quite heavily not long after leaving Edinburgh on what was the last King's Cross train of the night).

Given GPS had been happily recording speeds of up to 125mph, I have no reason to doubt its accuracy. Even if it was out by a bit, it wouldn't be out by 15mph and for a consistent distance.

Maybe the driver was illegally speeding, but given it was so long ago I doubt anyone will get in trouble over it. If there were measures in place to stop the train speeding, they can't have worked!

I can't provide proof, so you'll have to take my word for it. Call me a liar if you want, but GPS chipsets have been very accurate for some time, and while some can spike, that's obvious and easy to filter. The only real issue with GPS is the delay, which means you may have a reading that's a little late - but it's still correct.

 

[mallard]

Fairly easy to see any over-speeding nowadays, a lot of people carry iPhones with GPS.

I think that's why all new trains come with GPS-shielded window coatings.

 

[harz99]

I remember seeing a Look North news program in about 1995ish with an 'Intercity East Coast' 91+mk4s unit doing a speed run as a one-off; I seem to remember seeing a special handheld digital odometer being shown in the driver's cab reading 151mph in very distinctive red seven-segmented digital figures which is not the fastest they ever did (162mph in 1989 when they were all new)... but it was faster than normal running speed and they got special permission to do it. Passengers were being interviewed about what it was like to be doing 150mph as they were disembarking at York station.

So the bottom line is, whatever anyone else may be saying, there have been normal (non-test train) passenger services operating at 125mph+ in the past on the ECML, but not recently.

Around that time there was a special passenger train formed of a shortened 225 set that was used for a publicity run southbound from YRK (I think) to KGX. It was full of journos and various dignitaries from ICEC etc. and stopped en route only at PBO Platform 3 after the high speed run.

From memory this was to "big up" the 225 aspect of the stock (225 kph = 140 mph) and attempt a line speed record.

Everything else was cleared off the path, speed restrictions eased and so on.

 

[Woody]

Certainly in the early HST days on Great Western speed limits were interpreted far more liberally than today.130mph between Paddington and Reading was not unknown in pre-governer HST days.You only have to look at some of the gung-ho timings achieved back then.Travelling regularly over the South Devon banks over the years I had some pretty hairy rides back then around on that very sinuous route in the early HST days.Today running at line speed between Plymouth and Exeter non stop HSTs take about 53 minutes while the official record recorded back then for a HST between those cities is just 46 minutes.Overspeeding back then was I would say was inevitable in the circunstances.
According to this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXNuGG9NhXo in 1985 a high speed run was set up from Paddington to Plymouth and a journey time of 2 hours 21 minutes resulted!.Even today it still a minimum 3 hours so that must of been way over the limits given the track geometry.

 

[185]

Working for IC East Coast in 1996ish, my regular train (when I was still a steward) was the 0710 Leeds Aberdeen, working as far as Haymarket. Had an Edinburgh man (on the end of his shift) driving it, and the speeds being done were hideous. There were no data recorders to monitor the speed and the kitchen was a cross between a fairground funhouse and a greek plate smasher's wedding

 

[paul1609]

It wasnt just the GW Ive been in the cab of a 4 Cig+ 4big + 4 Cig with the speedo well past the 100 mark passing through Horley on the BML on a late running down Arun Valley Train, In the high 80s between Pulborough and Arundel too.