luggage on seats !!

[AlterEgo]

Yes, Ian is entitled to the whole difference between the fare he paid and the equivalent Standard Class fare.

That should be in the form of a cheque, not vouchers.

 

[Greenback]

From my POV it's too complicated to decide

If there were other seats available: yes
If there were not other seats available: no

What is sure is that if IPT is telling the truth (and I see no reason to disbelieve him here) then the women were certainly rude. Although I'm not sure why IPT simply didn't leave the bag on the table?

I'm not sure why it could be deemed acceptable to leave bags on seats. what if the only seats available have bags on them? How does one then decide who should be asked to mvoe their bag first?

I have no reason to doubt Ian's account. I agree that the two women could have handled the situation in a better way. I also believe that Ian and his brother are not blameless.

 

[SS4]

Yes, Ian is entitled to the whole difference between the fare he paid and the equivalent Standard Class fare.

That should be in the form of a cheque, not vouchers.

Is that the case for all TOCs? I got vouchers off XC under the same condition.

I'm not sure why it could be deemed acceptable to leave bags on seats. what if the only seats available have bags on them? How does one then decide who should be asked to mvoe their bag first?

Size and/or value?

I have no reason to doubt Ian's account. I agree that the two women could have handled the situation in a better way. I also believe that Ian and his brother are not blameless.

Agreed. The factor hardest to decide is exactly where on the spectrum it lies. Could the way the women acted be criminal damage for example?

 

[AlterEgo]

Indeed. I would not lay my hands on another person's property at all. The women were wrong to do this, certainly.

But the situation should never have arisen in the first place, should it? I'd have moved my bag, or found a solution, even if it was having a big bag on my knee. My bag - my responsibility.

Don't ask other people to suffer for your own choices, or you'll find THEY get rather "agitated"....as you've found, to your cost I'm afraid.

 

[chris89]

One of my most pet hates on any form of public transport overal.

One of the times going up to Edinburgh from Wolverhampton, i kindly asked this women to move her suitcase from the seat (Reserved one) which she did without saying anything, but then proceeded to give me evil stares the whole journey.

One she had was a small one that could have fitted in the overhead racks though.

When i took my brothers burgan to his uni house for him, i just put that bag in the luggage space where the ex shop's used to be on XC's voyagers, for my own bags if heading north i put the one with clothes etc in the overhead racks (holdal type of bag) then the over bag (an over shoulder style LP bag) down near my feet. If i do take my camera bag with me which i have two one being just big enough for the camera put it in another, for my main big camera bag, as the others goes under my feet/ under the seat, so i can keep a close eye on it.

But then saying overal i've never found it to be a big problem on trains, buses though are another story.

Chris

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I think you might need to learn how to spell but as for me, I've learnt nothing, clear conscience over here

Do I have to point out how you spelt statutory wrong twice on the 30 second door closing thread? People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

 

[Greenback]

Whoa, now you hold on a second, don't you dare imply that I have made a personal attack on you, don't you even go there. I was merely pointing something out for your own benefit.

And don't you dare make comments that are not true, I did not threaten you, I did not refuse to do anything and I will be damned that someone who wasn't there to know or see the facts tell me otherwise. I have said it a million times before and I am getting blue in the face from saying it to people like you, I made every single damn effort to move but couldn't. Not wouldn't, not shouldn't, couldn't! You have the picture in front of you, you have the facts and if you choose to disbelieve them, that makes me have an opinion of you!

Calm down. Please read what is posted, rather than what you think has been posted.

I did not say you made a personal attack. I said when you are making personal remarks it indicates you have nothing relevant to add. I can spell, I just can't type as fast as I want to without hitting the wrong keys!

I have not accused you of making threats either,. Not against me or anyone else. I have simply siad that I can't understand the reason for introducing agitation into the thread unless it was meant as threat. By which I was merely meant that it could eman that unless you or your brother were elft alone in your seats, unfortunate behaviour could result, so that no one should ever try and disturb you.

You do seem to be getting very emotional. Perhaps you need to step away from the forum for a spell while you calm down a bit?

Size and/or value?

How are we supposed to know though? A big bag may have nothing of value in it, a smaller bag might be full of valuables!

Agreed. The factor hardest to decide is exactly where on the spectrum it lies. Could the way the women acted be criminal damage for example?

It's possible, but I wouldn't have thought so in the circumstances. I don;t think Judge Judy would go for it anyway!

Indeed. I would not lay my hands on another person's property at all. The women were wrong to do this, certainly.

Agreed,

But the situation should never have arisen in the first place, should it? I'd have moved my bag, or found a solution, even if it was having a big bag on my knee. My bag - my responsibility.

Agreed. I have in the past chosen to stand in the vaestibule with two large bags rather than go into the coach itself, as the racks were full and I didn;t want to either leave them unattended or inconvenience other passengers.

Don't ask other people to suffer for your own choices, or you'll find THEY get rather "agitated"....as you've found, to your cost I'm afraid.

Quite. Well put AlterEgo.

 

[Seacook]

I'm not sure why it could be deemed acceptable to leave bags on seats. what if the only seats available have bags on them? How does one then decide who should be asked to mvoe their bag first?

I have no reason to doubt Ian's account. I agree that the two women could have handled the situation in a better way. I also believe that Ian and his brother are not blameless.

The NRCoC is quite clear on the matter:

You must not place luggage or other articles on seats required for passengers.
Section II Paragraph 46​

From this, I cannot see how Ian and his brother can be considered blameless. Not being there I do not know how far the women's action went beyond civilised behaviour, but I know I would not be very happy if someone insisted on using a seat for their bag in order to have room for their laptop.

 

[PTF62]

I made every single effort I could and was not able to do anything about it

From what you have said, you did nothing, other than make excuses. The bag was on the seat to start with and another passenger was standing, and when you had finished, the bag was on the seat and another passenger was standing.

And since you were not going to do anything about it, it seems quite reasonable that the other passenger that you were preventing sit down would do something about it.

From your username, it would appear that you are familiar with trains, the amount of luggage storage that they have, and would take that into consideration when travelling.

And above all, you would know the golden rule of "has that bag paid for a seat, because if not, I want to sit down".

 

[First class]

Ian, how much did you pay for the excess baggage?

£5.00 single for oversize/additional baggage
£10.00 return

Just curious as well to the length of the tripod...

Also:

A Train Company may refuse to accept Luggage or Articles in passenger accommodation if any of the following apply:

1 the item would obstruct doorways, gangways or corridors;
2 it may cause injury, inconvenience or a nuisance or it may cause damage to property;
-Your bag caused nuisance to customers wanting to sit down
3 there is not enough room for it;
-There was not enough room for it on luggage racks as you say
4 the loading or unloading may cause delay to trains; or
5 it is not carried or packaged in a suitable manner.

Byelaw 6(8) would see conviction for having a bag on a seat. Merseyrail convict for this when feet are on the seats, so baggage is also just (if not more) as obstructive

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Ooh, going for the attack on conscience, I like it! Not gonna work with me though, nice try!

Not an "attack" just a question.

 

[IanPooleTrains]

From what you have said, you did nothing, other than make excuses.

Rubbish, I did everything I could, not making any excuses at all

And since you were not going to do anything about it, it seems quite reasonable that the other passenger that you were preventing sit down would do something about it.

So therefore you are saying it was perfectly acceptable for them to put their hands on belongings that didn't belong to them, perfectly acceptable for them breaking things that didn't belong to them and perfectly acceptable for them to do what the hell they like?

From your username, it would appear that you are familiar with trains, the amount of luggage storage that they have, and would take that into consideration when travelling.

Then you obviously don't know me that well because that is not why I call myself IanPooleTrains and you are obviously not familiar with the flimsy amount of luggage space inside of a Class 350 Desiro

Ian, how much did you pay for the excess baggage?

£5.00 single for oversize/additional baggage
£10.00 return

Just curious as well to the length of the tripod...

Also:

A Train Company may refuse to accept Luggage or Articles in passenger accommodation if any of the following apply:

1 the item would obstruct doorways, gangways or corridors;
2 it may cause injury, inconvenience or a nuisance or it may cause damage to property;
-Your bag caused nuisance to customers wanting to sit down
3 there is not enough room for it;
-There was not enough room for it on luggage racks as you say
4 the loading or unloading may cause delay to trains; or
5 it is not carried or packaged in a suitable manner.

Byelaw 6(8) would see conviction for having a bag on a seat. Merseyrail convict for this when feet are on the seats, so baggage is also just (if not more) as obstructive

Please allow me to answer that question with a huh?

 

[AlterEgo]

What's "huh" about it?

First Class has stated the railway's "official" position on baggage.

I see we aren't going to convince you that a person is more important than a bag. Although it sounds as though those two women weren't angels, so I'm sure you didn't want to move your bag for a bag. Bwahaha.

 

[9K43]

Bags on seats and suitcases on seats is one of the things that I hate.
Although I do not pay on trains, I will go to a person hogging a seat and sit there to sit down.
The worst trains are the ones from and to Manchester Airport. These trains are always packed to the gills, with folk with jet lag and other such things.
This is not my problem, if they are taking up seats and I am standing I will just tell them to move up and let me sit down End of.
I have a free pass, which took nearly 3 decades to earn, as part of my wages.

 

[trainophile]

Ian, would you really have carried on sitting there with your bags on the other seats if the two women had simply stood up beside your table all the way? If so I find your lack of consideration quite shocking, I have to say.

What if the boot were on the other foot, and you were travelling on a train that does not offer seat reservations, and had to stand for your journey because someone else refused to move their baggage off the only vacant seat?

I really do wonder if this is a wind-up as there is absolutely no justification, moral or in the bylaws, for your (lack of) action in this. Seats are for bottoms not baggage.

 

[Clint]

I do think that the poster would be terribly unrealistic to expect people to stand whilst keeping his bags on the seats.

However I would certainly have pursued the women for criminal damage, calling the Police if necessary.

 

[Squaddie]

Everything was fine until we got to Northampton when our train split with the New Street train and the guard came over and said that the train was full and that he was declassifying first class...

Veering slightly off topic, I think that declassifying first class because standard is full is an appalling thing to do. Any train company that did that to me would never get my business again.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Veering slightly off topic, I think that declassifying first class because standard is full is an appalling thing to do. Any train company that did that to me would never get my business again.

Usually Virgin only declassify one or two of the (numerous enough) first class carriages. If you are a bona fide full fare anytime first class ticket holder then you won't have the unwashed masses descending on you as you will have the unreserved first class carriage to you and your kind.
It would only be the cheapskate advance first passengers who have paid little more than their counterparts in standard who would have to suffer this ignominy of being declassified.

 

[Prodigy]

I always keep my bag on my knees, dunno why but it's just comfy for me and I have quick access to any work I may need to do. Never keep it on the next seat though as I'd rather passengers sat then stood up.

 

[IanPooleTrains]

What's "huh" about it?

First Class has stated the railway's "official" position on baggage.

If that was the case, why didn't they stop me at Euston when they checked my tickets?????

Although it sounds as though those two women weren't angels, so I'm sure you didn't want to move your bag for a bag. Bwahaha.

And you can stick that comment where the sun doesn't shine!

Ian, would you really have carried on sitting there with your bags on the other seats if the two women had simply stood up beside your table all the way? If so I find your lack of consideration quite shocking, I have to say.

What if the boot were on the other foot, and you were travelling on a train that does not offer seat reservations, and had to stand for your journey because someone else refused to move their baggage off the only vacant seat?

I really do wonder if this is a wind-up as there is absolutely no justification, moral or in the bylaws, for your (lack of) action in this. Seats are for bottoms not baggage.

I have stood all the way from Milton Keynes Central on a packed train full of drunks from the FA Cup Semi-Finals to Rugeley TV which is an hour and twenty minutes and with a dodgy knee and a bad chest so if it is good enough for me, it is good enough for everyone else.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

so if it is good enough for me, it is good enough for everyone else.

Nobody could ever accuse you of being arrogant...

 

[IanPooleTrains]

Nobody could ever accuse you of being arrogant...

Hey, he wanted an honest response

 

[sprinterguy]

I have stood all the way from Milton Keynes Central on a packed train full of drunks from the FA Cup Semi-Finals to Rugeley TV which is an hour and twenty minutes and with a dodgy knee and a bad chest so if it is good enough for me, it is good enough for everyone else.

Most of the posters on this forum who travel on the railways will have had to stand on a train where there were no seats available. This is very different to having to stand because a seat that should have been available was being wrongfully occupied by somebody elses' belongings.

 

[IanPooleTrains]

To which I am sick and tired of explaining

 

[lookingforit35]

To which I am sick and tired of explaining

Great - looks like my laptop can have a seat to itself every day now according to your logic. I am sure no-one else will dare question my self belief.

 

[IanPooleTrains]

Oh ffs, I have told you all that I made every single effort I could, just go and believe what the hell you all like ffs

 

[SS4]

Methinks the prevailing opinion has been made clear, can we move on?

 

[IanPooleTrains]

Methinks the prevailing opinion has been made clear, can we move on?

When people are calling my god damn integrity into question?

 

[Mojo]

Blah blah blah. Thread locked.