"Train doors may close 30 seconds before departure" - what a nonsense

[BRX]

BRX whilst that may not be an exact figure, I can assure you it is certainly in that region. Then contrast that with an East Coast 9 coach HST with slam doors left open, that can take an age to depart. There isn't the consistency to make an arbitrary figure nationally.

If it takes 30 seconds to dispatch a Voyager then a Pendolino must be similar and one has to wonder how they justify shutting the gates 2 minutes early at Euston.

 

[Mike395]

If it takes 30 seconds to dispatch a Voyager then a Pendolino must be similar and one has to wonder how they justify shutting the gates 2 minutes early at Euston.

To allow people to walk up the platform and board at their coach, rather than making people walk through the whole train to get to their seat?

 

[snail]

Is that because I'm stupid or because the doors-closed time is inconsistent and different at different stations and I have other things to fill my dodgy memory up with, than the doors-closed times at all the different stations I use?

Doesn't matter really whether you want to define it as stupidity. It happens, so why not use a sensible system that would eliminate the problem?

There is a simple solution. Change your attitude and always arrive 2 minutes before the train departs. That way you accommodate the longest 'pre-boarding' routine without having to worry.

You still haven't fully explained why you need to arrive so tight to the departure time.

 

[A-driver]

For all those complaining about the T-30 rule, do you also complain when your train is 2 mins late causing a missed connection?

Last night I was given the 'tip' from dispatch to close doors at Victoria station 20-30 secs before time. I closed doors and a late runner held open the back set of doors for a ling stream of other later runners. It made me almost 2 min late leaving. That held up the que of trains outside the station waiting to come in as they had to wait for me to clear the path in that should have been cleared a min beforehand. I then missed my booked path over a junction further down the line and that caused the delay to escalate. Was 5 mins late by the time I got to final destination. Anyone with late night connections may have missed them due to some selfish la runner holding the doors open for his mates.

That is why we do T-30. To minimise the impact. If you are catching the 1052 train then there is absolutely no excuse for getting onto the platform at 1052-get there 2 or 3 mins earlier!

 

[Flamingo]

I hate to tell everybody on the thread, but all the whinging about door closing before departure won't make a blind bit of difference, the policy won't change. It is there to ensure that the vast majority who are on the train have a punctual journey, and if it is an inconvenience to the small minority who for whatever reason are late, well, such is life. Spend the time waiting on the next train reflecting on what could have been done to get to the train earlier.

But keep venting if it makes you all feel better.

 

[snail]

I don't agree with flexibility or discretion here either, as most of those just missing the train either have a fresh hot drink, food or newspaper in their hands. People in general need to get a sense of responsibility in their life about their own actions and decisions. Nobody will walk you through it and take account for what you do.

Not a train, but there was a very angry person shouting at a bus I was on yesterday for closing the doors and moving off while they were waiting to cross the road. The fact that the bus was leaving the terminus and was 6 minutes late would have been lost on them, I'm sure. :roll:

 

[Minilad]

If it takes 30 seconds to dispatch a Voyager then a Pendolino must be similar and one has to wonder how they justify shutting the gates 2 minutes early at Euston.

I would guess it's because the gate is still some way away from the first door you can board. In some cases a good 60 to 90 seconds walk I would estimate, especially with luggage. And of course FC is usually at the London end and we can't have lots of proles walking through FC disturbing All Line Rover alone on his table of four now can we

 

[Get-Pulled-Off]

You still haven't fully explained why you need to arrive so tight to the departure time.

Very few people PLAN to arrive so close to departure time, but quite often circumstances largely outside their control lead to it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I would guess it's because the gate is still some way away from the first door you can board. In some cases a good 60 to 90 seconds walk I would estimate,

Or about an 8 second run, if that. As for walking through FC, the guard actually waved me into that door, but then it's rare that you get such helpful guards these days, too often they have a chip on their shoulder.

 

[90019]

too often they have a chip on their shoulder.

In my experience, it's the passengers who think the world revolves around them and who believe that everyone else should be made to wait if they're running late that are the ones with the chip on their shoulders.
They're also generally the ones for whom it must alwas be the fault of someone else, and who will make excuses and blame others when they get things wrong.

 

[Get-Pulled-Off]

So that would be why (going back a little bit when I qualified :cry I got ranted at by a guard for asking for a YP return, a tirade of you must buy your ticket at a staffed station etc etc

To which I replied "but I got on at the unstaffed station after that". I'd like to know what I'd done wrong to deserve to be belittled infont of my fellow passengers.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

And because of a single incident, years ago, you now consider all guards to be jobsworths? Sounds like YOU have the chip...

 

[Get-Pulled-Off]

And because of a single incident, years ago, you now consider all guards to be jobsworths? Sounds like YOU have the chip...

Did I say all guards were jobsworths?

I said too many have a chip on their shoulder, I've heard the way they speak to a lot of people, assuming they are on the fiddle rather than either a) correct, or b) made a mistake.

Naturally there are some excellent ones around, I'll give you that. Just not enough. I try to avoid travel by rail these days anyway, it just doesn't offer value for money and have too many rules like closing doors early that are their to boost their own performance figures at the expense of customer satisfaction.

 

[whhistle]

I said too many have a chip on their shoulder, I've heard the way they speak to a lot of people, assuming they are on the fiddle rather than either a) correct, or b) made a mistake.

That's because unfortunately, most of them are on the fiddle.

I try to avoid travel by rail these days anyway, it just doesn't offer value for money and have too many rules like closing doors early that are their to boost their own performance figures at the expense of customer satisfaction.

There's nothing wrong with closing the doors 30/40 seconds before the train is ready to leave.
Just because you can make it on to the train in 8 seconds, what about the person with three bags and a baby? Unlikely.

 

[snail]

Very few people PLAN to arrive so close to departure time, but quite often circumstances largely outside their control lead to it.

From the OPs comments, it sounds like he resents every wasted second spent on the platform and does want to plan his arrival to within the final few seconds before departure.

 

[island]

With NIR , they're really slow in dispatching. At Central they wait if you're running down the stairs and reguarly radio to the barrier to ask if anyone else is coming for the services. What's the point in having timetables? They obviously delay trains left right and centre with they're stupid way of dispatching.

I was boarded onto a train from Central to Bangor through the driver's cabin once

 

[Oswyntail]

That's because unfortunately, most of them are on the fiddle....

Seems the smilies are not working on your computer. Or do you honestly believe that?

 

[Get-Pulled-Off]

.Just because you can make it on to the train in 8 seconds, what about the person with three bags and a baby? Unlikely.

Shut the doors and leave then. If you're not there by xx.xx.00, tough.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Very few people PLAN to arrive so close to departure time, but quite often circumstances largely outside their control lead to it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Or about an 8 second run, if that. As for walking through FC, the guard actually waved me into that door, but then it's rare that you get such helpful guards these days, too often they have a chip on their shoulder.

Sounds like you are the one with a chip on your shoulder!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That's because unfortunately, most of them are on the fiddle.

If you would like to accuse guards of being "on the fiddle" may I suggest you get yourself a good solicitor, Slander and defamation of character looks great in a court of law!

 

[Oswyntail]

......
If you would like to accuse guards of being "on the fiddle" may I suggest you get yourself a good solicitor, Slander and defamation of character looks great in a court of law!

I think he was accusing the customers of being on the fiddle :roll:- equally stupid, but less likely to get him duffed up here

 

[Minilad]

I think he was accusing the customers of being on the fiddle :roll:- equally stupid, but less likely to get him duffed up here

But surely taken as a percentage there are more passengers on the fiddle than staff

 

[Schnellzug]

That's because unfortunately, most of them are on the fiddle.
.

Ah, the South West Trains attitude to treating your customers with respect, yes. "We assume that you're trying to avoid paying your fare, unless you can prove otherwise. Therefore, we insist on treating every one of you with suspicion, and nannying you about it with automated admonishments".

 

[Oswyntail]

But surely taken as a percentage there are more passengers on the fiddle than staff

:roll: Another somewhat contentious statement. If one adopts that attitude, then, of course, "Pax" are guilty until proved guilty.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

I think he was accusing the customers of being on the fiddle :roll:- equally stupid, but less likely to get him duffed up here

In my opinion it looks like he is accusing staff but the same rules apply to both Staff and Passengers maybe he can clarify?, Fare evasion is a major problem (I deal with it everyday while doing my duties) but it is still a very small fraction of passengers

 

[Minilad]

:roll: Another somewhat contentious statement. If one adopts that attitude, then, of course, "Pax" are guilty until proved guilty.

No not at all. I don't look at every passenger and immediately come to the conclusion they are on the fiddle. But you have to agree that some are.
If not why bother having ticket examinations on trains or at stations. Surely that could be taken that we think all of you are on the fiddle, hence we need to check everyones ticket. Or should we only check the people who look like they might be on the fiddle ?. So obviously we wouldn't need to check anyone in a business suit or smart clothing as they would have paid the correct fare

 

[HSTfan!!!]

I put this to the OP, If a train is advertised to depart at 1205, how can it depart bang on that time if passengers are still boarding at that time. That is the advertised departure time, hence the dispatch procedure needs to start in good time before the departure time in order for the train to depart at the departure time... why is that hard to comprehend?

 

[IanPooleTrains]

I put this to the OP, If a train is advertised to depart at 1205, how can it depart bang on that time if passengers are still boarding at that time. That is the advertised departure time, hence the dispatch procedure needs to start in good time before the departure time in order for the train to depart at the departure time... why is that hard to comprehend?

Counter argument then, how can a train be on time if it leaves early?

If a train is booked to leave a xxxx, it is supposed to leave at xxxx and not xxxy because a timetable, in a way, is like a contract and by train not running to that timetable by means of leaving early, guards could be seen as breaking contracts

If a train is late, a train is late it could possibly make the time up depending on it's route but what cause is there for a guard seeing a time, hearing a time being announced and then leaving before that time?

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Tocs want there trains wheels moving at EXACTLY" the time it states on the working timetable e.g. 10.12 and Zero seconds hence the 20/30 second rule as a rule I shut the doors 20 seconds beforehand as by the time the dep time has arrived I tend to be spot on, I am sorry to the passengers who disagree with it but in the era of fines and delay attribution TOC's will do all they can to keep bang on schedulr, it is the way it is and nothing will change that.

 

[IanPooleTrains]

Tocs want there trains wheels moving at EXACTLY" the time it states on the working timetable e.g. 10.12 and Zero seconds hence the 20/30 second rule as a rule I shut the doors 20 seconds beforehand as by the time the dep time has arrived I tend to be spot on, I am sorry to the passengers who disagree with it but in the era of fines and delay attribution TOC's will do all they can to keep bang on schedulr, it is the way it is and nothing will change that.

I agree with TOCS wanting their trains to move at the time that they state but as I asked, is there any need for a guard to take into their own hands when that train should leave?

I agree with you that a train should close it's doors twenty/thirty/forty seconds before departure and I get that but what I don't get is when a guard decides to do that knowing that they are leaving a station earlier than a time they should. That is no acceptable

 

[A-driver]

A timetable is certainly NOT like a contract! It states on timetables that it is a guide and subject to change with little notice.

Not sure how this thread can still be going...it's simple, never aim to turn up at a station at the advertised departure time or you ate likely to miss your train! Safely closing doors and starting the train in motion can often take a good 30secs. If for any reason you are slightly late to the station then tough! Same as anything in life-you wouldn't expect a ferry, plane, theatre show etc to wait for you would you?

As for gates closing 2 mins early at big stations like eusten-it is health and safety. They don't want people running for trains as if they trip and fall then they may be sued. But once again if you are booked on the 1026 to Manchester or something you really shouldn't be planning on getting to euston any later than about 20 past should you?!

 

[sprinterguy]

Tocs want there trains wheels moving at EXACTLY" the time it states on the working timetable e.g. 10.12 and Zero seconds hence the 20/30 second rule

It seems to be a strange way of looking at departure times that the TOCs have in my opinion, as the minute of, say, 12:05 stretches from 12:05 and 0 seconds to 12:05 and 59 seconds. So even if the doors were closed as 12:05 and 15 seconds, and the train only started moving at 12:05 and 45 seconds, it would still count as on time in my book. A "12:05" departure time shouldn't just be referring to a departure that is on the dot of 12:05 and zero seconds.