Ore Tunnel work to close Marshlink rail line

[ushawk]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-15188636

Hastings Borough Council have announced they arent happy with the whole service being stopped along the Marshlink - but there isnt any other option other than sending a couple of trains around Tonbridge early every morning and late everyday.

 

[mappman1000]

An Ore-Ashford shuttle cant operate as the Ore Tunnel is to the north of the station. But would this affect the SN/SE services that terminate at Ore ?

Let me rectify that to Between Ashford and Rye then.

 

[JamesRowden]

A fast replacement bus service (only stopping at Hastings, Rye and Ashford) that would use the A259 between Hastings and Rye and the A259/A2070 between Rye and Ashford would take about the same time as the train does. If this replacement bus service were implemented there would be little need for a train service during the works since the vast majority of journeys on the line would be satisfied. An Ashford to Rye stopping replacement bus service could run to serve Ham Street and Appledore. The stations between Ore and Rye are not near any built up areas and Stagecoach run the '100/101' bus between Hastings and Dover via Rye which does run via the few built up areas.

 

[Greenback]

A fast replacement bus service (only stopping at Hastings, Rye and Ashford) that would use the A259 between Hastings and Rye and the A259/A2070 between Rye and Ashford would take about the same time as the train does. If this replacement bus service were implemented there would be little need for a train service during the works since the vast majority of journeys on the line would be satisfied. An Ashford to Rye stopping replacement bus service could run to serve Ham Street and Appledore. The stations between Ore and Rye are not near any built up areas and Stagecoach run the '100/101' bus between Hastings and Dover via Rye which does run via the few built up areas.

Hi James, pelase could you clarify? What is your definition of a built up area? And are you saying that if you don't live in one you shouldn't have a train service?

 

[JamesRowden]

I did not realise that Three Oaks Station was actually in Three Oaks (Unlike Winchelsea Station). I might define a built up area as a place with at least a hundred people living in close proximity. I was not saying that small places should not have a Rail service. Simply, that a station that is a long walk from a small town should be a lower priority than those that are in the middle of a large town.

 

[steamybrian]

A fast replacement bus service (only stopping at Hastings, Rye and Ashford) that would use the A259 between Hastings and Rye and the A259/A2070 between Rye and Ashford would take about the same time as the train does. If this replacement bus service were implemented there would be little need for a train service during the works since the vast majority of journeys on the line would be satisfied.

Advertised rail journey time is 22minutes for the 15 miles between Ashford and Rye. I would be very, very surprised if the substitute bus service could do it in that time. In a car it has taken me 15 minutes just get out of Ashford in the peak hours....!. Similarly from Rye I would allow 15 minutes to get through the towns one way system then along the narrow,twisting roads to get to Brookland (south of Appledore) and then you are only barely halfway to Ashford. .
It is feasible to operate a Ashford -Rye shuttle with one unit (and a turnround time of under 5 minutes) however a pilotman is required because at Rye there is no start back signal for a wrong direction movement back on to the single line. I do recognise that a spare standby unit would be prefered.
It is system that worked in my old days with BR but maybe there is some modern ruling that prohibits it.

 

[Greenback]

I did not realise that Three Oaks Station was actually in Three Oaks (Unlike Winchelsea Station). I might define a built up area as a place with at least a hundred people living in close proximity. I was not saying that small places should not have a Rail service. Simply, that a station that is a long walk from a small town should be a lower priority than those that are in the middle of a large town.

Interesting definition!

If a small rural station has five trains per day, and engineering works close the line, do you agree that the station should receive a similar replacement bus service? (The service will probbaly take longer).

I think it's an important principle that when a line is closed, replacement buses should run at least as frequently as the train. Ideally, I'd like replacement buses to be kept to a minimum, but they are better than nothing!

 

[class377man]

Could you not have a 171 fuelled at Selhurst shuttling down to Ashford every morning via Redhill and Tonbridge? Sincere question, I'm not sure if this is practical or not.

 

[southerner2174]

Doubt it, you'll need to have at least several pilots for that run due to limited route knowledge per depot, Norwood drivers only sign as far as Redhill (as far as I am still aware), so you'll need someone from Redhill to conduct to Tonbridge and then someone from Southeastern to conduct to Ashford, plus having to hire in taxis for the Eastbourne crews to get there and back.

Plus what happens if the unit fails, you'll need numerous people to get it back to Selhurst and swap over to another unit.

 

[Cletus]

The local MPs have written letters to Southern & Network Rail. Hurrah!

"MPs join forces over Ashford to Hastings rail closure"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-15416087

 

[class377man]

It doesn't mean anything. If it isn't cost-effective to run trains, and it isn't by all accounts, it won't happen.

 

[ushawk]

It isnt cost effective to have a few 2-car diesel units go via Tonbridge to provide an hourly shuttle from Rye-Ashford. SE staff will need to pilot the Southern drivers, then you need to get the drivers which sign the route to Ashford - its cheaper for Southern to just use a bus, if Southern were getting money from the government to run a shuttle, then that would probably be wrong as well.

Of course, if the line was electrified, a shuttle of some sort may of been easier to work, possibly using SE units.

 

[HSTEd]

I think they might be upset that the line is closing and they arent even going to provide upgrades in the form of electrification during the closure, how much would that even cost with the ability to work during normal hours rather than only at night?

 

[TheJRB]

I think they might be upset that the line is closing and they arent even going to provide upgrades in the form of electrification during the closure, how much would that even cost with the ability to work during normal hours rather than only at night?

I'm not surprised that people are upset. The closure is rather out of the ordinary in its length. It would appear (without proper explanation from Southern) that there isn't a need to close the whole thing for the full duration to carry out the work detailed in/on the specified tunnel.

However I'm not sure people would have such a problem if it involved electrification!

 

[Southern]

It will be interesting to see how this all works it. At least two services an hour from Ashford would be needed; a slow (Ham Street, Appledore, Rye) and fast (Rye). Fast picks up customers from Ham Street and Appledore at Rye, before running non-stop to Hastings. The slow bus would then call at Winchelsea (Village), Doleham and Three Oaks.

Extra trains run in the morning/evening between Ashford - Rye/Hastings so I imagine buses will need to be provided for those services. It could turn ugly if they underestimate demand by not providing enough buses, especially at peak time. What I'm wondering is where all the buses will come from? Surely in the week most are being hired out to local schools and the like.

 

[richardm]

5 units are required. 4 operate the Brighton - Ashford service; the fifth is a spare which is used to operate the Rye Shuttle - which is the first diagram to be cancelled in the event of unit failure.

3 units are berthed at St Leonards Depot overnight and one at Eastbourne. The fifth runs from Brighton to Selhurst at the end of each day, with its replacement returning early in the morning to form the first service of the day to Ashford.

 

[TheJRB]

So the nine weeks have passes and I'm a little confused as to when the line reopens:

The NRE service disruption indicator says that the replacement bus service started 09/01/2012 and ends 11/03/2012.

The NRE departure boards show a 22:32 AFK-HGS service calling at all stations with a train symbol rather than a bus symbol.

I was under the impression that the first train out of AFK would be the 06:13 to Brighton tomorrow morning...

 

[OxtedL]

Looks like they've been running trains Ashford to Lewes all day. Don't know what this means, though.

 

[ushawk]

Perhaps the work had finished a day early and rather than not using the line for a day, run a normal service - would have thought a notice on the Southern website would have been posted though.

 

[TheJRB]

Well that would explain it! There's also a 23:17 arrival at AFK from Lewes listed which I'm pretty sure isn't a regularly booked service.

 

[ushawk]

Line is shut between Brighton and Lewes, think there is always a later service from there to Ashford on a Sunday for some reason anyway.

One explanation for not announcing is that Southern are trying the service to see if it runs smoothly for tomorrow, no regular trains have ran over the line for 2 months of course.