Trains are making our lives hell(Wrexham Residents)

[merlodlliw]

http://www.leaderlive.co.uk/news/106813/-trains-are-making-our-lives-hell-say-residents.aspx.

I have put this up for interest,W/S trains were parked in bays at the station,without effecting residents.(67s)
the main problem appears the Voyager is a DMU with multi engines running for a long time, parked up near to houses.

Yes I know its the old problem, a townie moving to the Country complains about the cock crowing, and did you not know there was a railway line a few feet away when you bought the house.

Bob

 

[richw]

I'd be pretty certain the railway was there first, so its their problem for not researching the railway, unless it is new bays/sidings?

 

[Wyvern]

I'd be pretty certain the railway was there first, so its their problem for not researching the railway, unless it is new bays/sidings?

Yes but they might have not expected Voyagers to stand idling for periods. Even for passengers in a station they are unbelievably smelly and noisy. Steam locos may have been smoky but not offensively so, nor were they so continually noisy. WSMR 67s would not have been so bad as Voyagers either.

 

[SprinterMan]

Maybe this is the excuse Virgin needs to pull out of Wrexham once and for all

 

[northwichcat]

There was a similar complaint in Knutsford a number of years back when people who bought new houses didn't realise that freight started operating on the train line near their homes at 5am.

However, with Manchester Airport flights over Knutsford it's a different story as they now fly much lower over the town and due to the second runway and the 'emergency overnight usage of runway 2' which was supposed to be for daytime use only except in an emergency under the planning permission gets abused as maintenance taking 6-8 months on runway 1 get's classed as an emergency when it's actually planned maintenance.

So we really need more information to decide whether the residents have a case.

 

[richw]

Yes but they might have not expected Voyagers to stand idling for periods. Even for passengers in a station they are unbelievably smelly and noisy. Steam locos may have been smoky but not offensively so, nor were they so continually noisy. WSMR 67s would not have been so bad as Voyagers either.

Its something they should of checked when purchasing, i certainly would be if their was a rail line along my back garden.

 

[EltonRoad]

Maybe they did - the Voyagers haven't been running for that long, maybe the residents were there before they started running.

How do we know that house sellers didn't fail to disclose details of noise (for fear of no sale).

Notwithstanding the above, residents are still well within their rights to complain about it - leaving engines running idle for protracted periods is a complete waste of fuel and causes unnecessary noise and smoke pollution so maybe it needs a few complaints to get them switched off.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Since we moved here in March

I think that's after Virgin started running to Wrexham

 

[Minilad]

“Sometimes I feel like going out to the train drivers and telling them to move but you never see anyone.


Stealth Drivers.
"Driver can you move this train please"
"Erm no"

 

[Crossover]

I am led to believe (I'm sure someone will be able to tell me if I am talking complete nonsense soon enugh :P) that Voyagers cannot be shut down as a walk round check has to be conducted on start-up which cannot be done in certain places.

In some cases they also can't shut trains down as the mechanicals have to be kept up to temperature though I don't believe this is the case with Voyagers

 

[Schnellzug]

I'd never make an MP, I'm afraid, I'd be fired after a week for keeping telling everyone who complained about something "oh for goodness sake, get over yourself". What about the poor people who work at Bimingham N.S or Bristol T.M. and have Voyagers, HSTs and all sorts of DMUs standing outside their door all day.

 

[ess]

those houses are VERY close to the railway. their 'back garden' is tiny. i can see why you'd get upset if you lived there. i think this issue is one of corporate social responsibility. the train company should accept that it's a problem and offer to find an alternative. regardless of whether the train line was there first. the fault here lies with the council planning department i think.

 

[Schnellzug]

I am led to believe (I'm sure someone will be able to tell me if I am talking complete nonsense soon enugh :P) that Voyagers cannot be shut down as a walk round check has to be conducted on start-up which cannot be done in certain places.

In some cases they also can't shut trains down as the mechanicals have to be kept up to temperature though I don't believe this is the case with Voyagers

I suppose they want to keep the air con running, which on HSTs they could do by shutting down one power car and leaving the one at the other end running. I've seen them shut down & start up Voyagers, though, without seemingly the need for any preliminaries.

 

[Minilad]

I am led to believe (I'm sure someone will be able to tell me if I am talking complete nonsense soon enugh :P) that Voyagers cannot be shut down as a walk round check has to be conducted on start-up which cannot be done in certain places.

Nothing stopping a Voyager being shut down and restarted. In fact XC drivers are instructed to shut them down if they will be sat anywhere for longer than 15 mins and restart 10 mins before departure to enable any lost air to be built up again
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'd never make an MP, I'm afraid, I'd be fired after a week for keeping telling everyone who complained about something "oh for goodness sake, get over yourself". What about the poor people who work at Bimingham N.S or Bristol T.M. and have Voyagers, HSTs and all sorts of DMUs standing outside their door all day.

The same for me with people who complain about train horns. The horns are sounded for a reason. We don't just do it because they sound fun :roll:

 

[blacknight]

Why are developers allowed to build homes so close to railway today, its not as if these homes are a railway terrace built for railway workers. What if land homes stand on is required for future rail expanditure taxer payer would then face cost of a public enquiry

 

[Schnellzug]

Nothing stopping a Voyager being shut down and restarted. In fact XC drivers are instructed to shut them down if they will be sat anywhere for longer than 15 mins and restart 10 mins before departure to enable any lost air to be built up again
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


The same for me with people who complain about train horns. The horns are sounded for a reason. We don't just do it because they sound fun :roll:

You're not allowed to sound them when you enter tunnels now, aren't you, because it might annoy people. It might annoy people if they're run down by a train in a tunnel because they didn't hear it, but that's not important.

 

[Wyvern]

The same for me with people who complain about train horns. The horns are sounded for a reason. We don't just do it because they sound fun :roll:

Trains will have been sounding horns and whistles there for up to 200 years. Some modern electronic horns of course have a very sharp attack.

However I notice that Network Rail, in spite of the houses near the lines being built recently, send round letters of apology before starting noisy work. So they at least try to be good neighbours.

 

[merlodlliw]

Maybe they did - the Voyagers haven't been running for that long, maybe the residents were there before they started running.

How do we know that house sellers didn't fail to disclose details of noise (for fear of no sale).

Notwithstanding the above, residents are still well within their rights to complain about it - leaving engines running idle for protracted periods is a complete waste of fuel and causes unnecessary noise and smoke pollution so maybe it needs a few complaints to get them switched off.

Been running since Dec 2008,almost three years, this is the second time similar residents have complained, it is my understanding the train arrives or arrived around 0530, then idles for almost 90 minutes by the houses,they used to park it in the old W/S bays after the first complaints, last week we had record temperatures, no wind and voyagers do smell with five engines on constant tick over,as far as VT pulling out of Wrexham,the move to have a go at W/S meant they took over two ATW local franchise runs (pre DB) between Wrexham & Chester & return.
As ATW use the up VT feeder to Wrexham ex Shrewsbury directly on the bidston line,there appears no spare stock, chickens come home to roost comes to mind.
If the doubling of the line takes place Wrexham to Saltney, the problem would go away, this 90 minutes idle in Wrexham is all to do with too few paths on a single track, so the Voyager is knackered to get a path into Wrexham after 0530.
Bob

 

[Minilad]

You're not allowed to sound them when you enter tunnels now, aren't you, because it might annoy people. It might annoy people if they're run down by a train in a tunnel because they didn't hear it, but that's not important.

There are lots of places we used to have to sound the horn that have now been removed from the rule book. Tunnels is one. Another which I find strange is when passing through a station non stop with a train standing in the station on the adjacent line. There was a case a couple of years ago where two young girls were killed on a crossing, Cambridgeshire I think, if this rule had still been in place the driver of the approaching train would have sounded the horn and the two girls may now still be alive. But hey at least someone wasn't disturbed so its all OK :roll:

 

[Royston Vasey]

The "railway was here first" line is understandable but rather arrogant. It wouldn't be hard for Virgin (and I guess Network Rail if there is a pathing issue) to generate a bit of goodwill here. It isn't that hard and is good practice in terms of CSR to cooperate with their neighbours.

 

[Crossover]

What about the poor people who work at Bimingham N.S or Bristol T.M. and have Voyagers, HSTs and all sorts of DMUs standing outside their door all day.

Or anyone at or within a fair radius of Clapham Junction station last week too :P

I suppose they want to keep the air con running, which on HSTs they could do by shutting down one power car and leaving the one at the other end running. I've seen them shut down & start up Voyagers, though, without seemingly the need for any preliminaries.

Yeah, with HST's they can stop one of the power cars (and often do/have to at undercover stations like St Pancras) with the other one providing the power for anything else.

Nothing stopping a Voyager being shut down and restarted. In fact XC drivers are instructed to shut them down if they will be sat anywhere for longer than 15 mins and restart 10 mins before departure to enable any lost air to be built up again

I had a feeling it may be stretching the truth. I read it somewhere on here though but thought it seemed a bit odd (I think that was something to do with them sat idling for hours in a siding, possibly at Wrexham actually)

That said, the one time I have got on a Voyager shut down, it took them an age to get thing moving again so I did wonder if they tended to shy away from it (very rarely seem them off at Manchester, but it would probably do quite a lot of good if they were shut down!)

 

[dickdarlington]

Being someone who purchased a house next to the ECML, I, like the people who were moaning was fully aware of the railway line at the bottom of the garden (although it does sound like these may be a lot closer that we are).

We have learnt to live with the sound of trains going past (much improved with the Eureka timetable I am glad to say) but freight still thunders through, and we have a loop nearby where freight trains wait for a clear path. We were fully aware of the situation when we brought the property. In fact it feels odd on Christmas day when there are no trains. And I get up on a morning to my own alarm clock...the Flying Scotsman.

I think its fair to say if we did complain about the noise we'd be laughed out of the meeting.

I have however had one or two nights where sleep has been hard to come by. Saturday just gone being a prime example. They were doing maintainence right outside, and the lights were bright, and the saws were noisy, and the banging of whatever they were banging was irritating. But again, I wouldn't complain about one night because I know that its essential work.

Some people need to consider looking beyond their boundaries before buying a house.

 

[EltonRoad]

I don't agree. Their problem is with leaving trains idling for an excessive period. Without knowing the technical details of Voyagers' engines, why can't they just be shut down. That's what they're saying.

All this stuff about you shouldn't have bought the house in the first place is extremely patronising. No-one knows these people's circumstances, there are a huge number of factors involved in buying a house. Maybe it was all they could afford. Maybe they've inherited a family home. Who knows.

If they are resident there and the trains are idling and causing noise and smoke pollution then of course they're going to try and get something done about it, who wouldn't.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Why are developers allowed to build homes so close to railway today, its not as if these homes are a railway terrace built for railway workers. What if land homes stand on is required for future rail expenditure taxer payer would then face cost of a public enquiry

Look at how many housing developments have been built on land next to the railways since 1970 onwards and are still being built. When you buy one of these properties, your solicitor would be notified of the change of land use in the legal documentation and in the registration with the Land Registry.

For those of us old enough to remember, the early televised Grand National races from Aintree, used to feature long rows of excursion carriages, in certain parts of the course, but all you see now is housing. I noticed one recent example of new housing near a railway line at Church Fenton, when we were en route to Durham from Manchester Airport last week and I am sure that many forum members can name similar new developments near the railway in their own areas.

 

[headshot119]

Article is certainly exaggerated. The Morning 221 ECS doesn't arrive till 06:45, if not later, driver swaps ends and heads in platform two. Not sure where the 30 minutes comes from.

 

[Minilad]

Article is certainly exaggerated. The Morning 221 ECS doesn't arrive till 06:45, if not later, driver swaps ends and heads in platform two. Not sure where the 30 minutes comes from.

Press in exaggerate story for better effect shock. Surely not

 

[BestWestern]

This does sound more like a poor planning decision than anything else. Perhaps poor research by developers failed to note that there is a siding/stabling point at the location rather than simply a 'railway line', and it' fair to suggest that property buyers may also have been unaware.

Having said that, it isn't unreasonable to expect diesel units to be shut down if they are stabled for more than a few minutes, especially if there are homes nearby. It's quite shocking how many DMU drivers don't shut down engines even when their unit is idle for a good half an hour or more. Excuses about running 'systems' are pretty poor really, having air-con churning away on an empty train is daft and, except in very warm weather, just not necessary. Perhaps a requirement to switch off might encourage certai TOCs to impove their maintenance standards too!

 

[Gareth Marston]

Been running since Dec 2008,almost three years, this is the second time similar residents have complained, it is my understanding the train arrives or arrived around 0530, then idles for almost 90 minutes by the houses,they used to park it in the old W/S bays after the first complaints, last week we had record temperatures, no wind and voyagers do smell with five engines on constant tick over,as far as VT pulling out of Wrexham,the move to have a go at W/S meant they took over two ATW local franchise runs (pre DB) between Wrexham & Chester & return.
As ATW use the up VT feeder to Wrexham ex Shrewsbury directly on the bidston line,there appears no spare stock, chickens come home to roost comes to mind.
If the doubling of the line takes place Wrexham to Saltney, the problem would go away, this 90 minutes idle in Wrexham is all to do with too few paths on a single track, so the Voyager is knackered to get a path into Wrexham after 0530.
Bob

Bob- Look at Cambrian post for WG budget some interesting figures I've put up.

 

[jon0844]

i think this issue is one of corporate social responsibility. the train company should accept that it's a problem and offer to find an alternative. regardless of whether the train line was there first. the fault here lies with the council planning department i think.

I wouldn't blame the council, but rather the property developers - and indeed the lazy conveyancing solicitors that charge you a fortune and then seem to ask an intern or work experience person to do the paperwork and fail to check anything!

But, there's obviously something to be said about expecting noise if you're near a railway. However, if you're told the full facts and the price reflects this, what's the harm in building houses there? I bet there would be some people that would love to be there!

 

[All Line Rover]

Complete and utter rubbish! :roll:

The trains have been there for years - the housing estates near Wrexham General station have been built very recently.

If someone decides to move near to a railway station, that is their decision. And considering the line isn't electrified, is it any wonder that diesel trains come by every now and then? What else do you expect!? :roll: I find it slightly stupid for someone whose child has asthma to move so near to such a place.

That's not to say Virgin can't do anything to improve the situation - they can and should do - but the article (as people have already mentioned) is heavily exaggerated.