Oh crikey I might as well just hand all my pay straight to the guvmint then
Thought you already did anyway mate!
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Speed Limit up to 80mph
- Thread starter Butts
- Start date
- Status
Thought you already did anyway mate!
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Minilad
Established Member
Effectively yes !
Try the M6 between Stoke and Knutsford.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
So then, what do you suggest is done to tackle this problem ?
Increasing the speed limit from 70 to 80 is not going to make it go away.
If you nip up to Manchester this week , then you may even get a chance to tell everyone !
90019
Established Member
I've driven nearly the whole M6 earlier this year (apart from the section between junction 1 and 4), in a Ford Ka, and had no issues with using lane 1, which I did for the majority of the journey.
HSTEd
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 14 Jul 2011
- Messages
- 20,319
As for speed cameras not picking up people with uninsured vehicles..... modern automatic traffic camera recognition ones will pick them up since it records the numberplate of every vehicle that passes it for average speed and traffic flow control purposes. You can then either issue a fine or an operator responding to an alert issued by the system (some kind of message on a computer screen or whatever) that an uninsured vehicle has been detected he can then lead a police car straight to them.
Its a simple software lookup function to add to them to check all the vehicles against ones that are SORNed or uninsured or whatever.
And I have my doubts that traffic police are any good at catching drunk drivers anyway, and most unroadworthy vehicles arent obviously (to the casual inspector) unroadworthy until something bad happens.
Also will I be recieving fuel duty/VAT on duty relief on the petrol used in my hedgetrimmer or lawnmower as they have nothing to do with the roads or speeding?
Its a simple software lookup function to add to them to check all the vehicles against ones that are SORNed or uninsured or whatever.
And I have my doubts that traffic police are any good at catching drunk drivers anyway, and most unroadworthy vehicles arent obviously (to the casual inspector) unroadworthy until something bad happens.
Alright, so who pays for things that used to be funded by road tax and fuel duty that will not be funded under this new system?
Also will I be recieving fuel duty/VAT on duty relief on the petrol used in my hedgetrimmer or lawnmower as they have nothing to do with the roads or speeding?
Last edited:
Get-Pulled-Off
Member
- Joined
- 17 Apr 2011
- Messages
- 190
And how do you know who's driving them? Just because somebody has insured a car does not mean the person driving it is that person. Having a fixed camera MUST have a Police officer ready to stop the car otherwise it's useless, as even if caught on camera and the fine sent through the post you could easily find somebodies insurance certificate that includes "driving other cars 3rd party only"(this is common on most policies) and get off scott free. So we're back to having real policemen on site anyway.
Better to have real Police turning up in random places than people knowing where the cameras are and avoiding them.
90019
Established Member
ANPR cameras do indeed pick up uninsured/untaxed/reported stolen/etc. vehicles, but you still need the Police officer to go and stop them. The databases aren't always correct either.
Vehicles can show up as uninsured when the MID hasn't been updated properly, so sending someone a fine automatically for that is a stupid idea.
Of course, they don't pick up vehicles with illegal plates, drivers without licences/insurance, cloned vehicles, or vehicles with defects that a Police officer would pick up on.
A camera can't have suspicions about a car that turns out to be dodgy whilst appearing genuine on databases either.
Unless they swap the windows...
The biggest danger I find on the motorways is reckless slow driving. A couple of near misses where I've nearly rear-ended a car doing 40-50ish while I've been doing 70-80ish. You just don't expect to encounter someone going that slowly and by the time you've judge your window to change lane and over-take you're on top of them. If everyone traveled at at a consistent 200 mph the motorway would be safer than now with the differentials of 50 mph or so.
The minimum speed should be considered and policed too.
As for the environmental concerns. Give it a rest will ya. CO2 emissions have become a clichéd means to bolster a weak argument and its come to cheapen any legimate environmental cause.
Not a motorway, but yesterday (a Sunday, naturally!) I was stuck behind a woman in a Ford Puma that was doing 20mph, in a 30, then a 40 and then into 60. She did the same speed.
She then slammed the brakes on (20mph obviously too fast) and turned into a private road, which is when I could see that she was a woman, and quite young at that (18-20 at a guess). With hindsight, given the lovely weather, there's a chance she'd been out and had a few drinks and thought that driving slow would be safe.
She created a large jam and for the 30/40mph sections there was no opportunity to overtake (and speed cameras) and when it went to 60, the road had too many curves. Thank goodness she turned off, or someone behind would have almost certainly been tempted to do a dangerous overtake no matter what, and naturally, they'd be at fault and not her.
She then slammed the brakes on (20mph obviously too fast) and turned into a private road, which is when I could see that she was a woman, and quite young at that (18-20 at a guess). With hindsight, given the lovely weather, there's a chance she'd been out and had a few drinks and thought that driving slow would be safe.
She created a large jam and for the 30/40mph sections there was no opportunity to overtake (and speed cameras) and when it went to 60, the road had too many curves. Thank goodness she turned off, or someone behind would have almost certainly been tempted to do a dangerous overtake no matter what, and naturally, they'd be at fault and not her.
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
Isn't this the reason why the law is being changed soon to make the vehicle keeper liable for anything committed with the vehicle regardless of who was driving it?
( Or is that just for parking offences? )
Donny Dave
Established Member
How's that going to work then when a car is stolen and used in a theft?
Schnellzug
Established Member
Presumably they assume that people would usually report it if their Car is stolen?
Geezertronic
Established Member
They have started putting ANPR cameras at our local BP station. It has the usual number plate recognition system to deal with the pump and drive off scenarios but has also started putting specific cameras on the forecourt labelled up as ANPR. It only seems to be connected to a silver box, there are usually cops around this particular BP on a regular basis as they use it to go to the toilet 
SS4
Established Member
They have started putting ANPR cameras at our local BP station. It has the usual number plate recognition system to deal with the pump and drive off scenarios but has also started putting specific cameras on the forecourt labelled up as ANPR. It only seems to be connected to a silver box, there are usually cops around this particular BP on a regular basis as they use it to go to the toilet
There's quite a few now. The one on the Tyburn Road (towards Spaghetti) is pre-payment only and there is one heading out of town opposite Aston Science Park just before the expressway that has ANPR I believe.
I guess with petrol costs being high bilking* is becoming more common
* Filling up and driving off without paying - watch more road wars
Craftily now, in another attack on the motorist, I believe your car has to be insured even if you've declared it off-road
90019
Established Member
If your car is taxed, it has to be insured even if it's off the road.
if you SORN it, it doesn't require insurance.
SS4
Established Member
Cheers for that, I'd heard something about insurance. Thank goodness for that
Donny Dave
Established Member
It does if it's parked on your driveway ....
This has affected me, I have a old xr3i convertible. I used to keep it taxed, but only insured it for summer months, and then took temp insurance out if i was going to use it in the out of summer months. I've now got to sorn it for the months i am not using it. or keep it insured 12 months of the year.
90019
Established Member
No it doesn't.
If you park the car on a public road, it has to have tax and insurance.
If it's SORNed, it doesn't have to be insured but has to be kept off public roads.
It's the funniest thing I've read on the forum for a long time!
What a stupid excuse!
GearJammer
Member
bit harsh, how do you know she was'nt looking for her turning? I do this quite often in the truck when looking for a turn off or address or when i need to look at a road/turning before commiting to going in it.
For one or two miles? And to what I presume would be a private road leading to her house? 20 MPH throughout?
If she'd forgotten where she lived, I really question how she can remember to drive.
I really do hope she was drunk. Not that I'm condoning it, but at least it would explain why she was doing what she did. Imagine if she drives everywhere at 20mph; less than a mile further up the same road is a motorway!!
If she'd forgotten where she lived, I really question how she can remember to drive.
I really do hope she was drunk. Not that I'm condoning it, but at least it would explain why she was doing what she did. Imagine if she drives everywhere at 20mph; less than a mile further up the same road is a motorway!!
Back to the original post:-
Technically, speeds of 100 mph are safe enough on an empty motorway, but it's years since I've been on one of those. The usual situation is 3 lanes with vehicles at 60 ish on the inside lane, 70 in the middle and 80 plus on the outside. Vehicles are far too close together in general, especially on the outside lane where the habit is to sit on the bumper of the person you regard as going too slowly (even though he has a right to be there if he is actually overtaking). Also, going at 100mph uses more fuel and creates more emissions that at 70. Journey time saving? Maybe if the traffic isn't heavy, more usually you will just get to the next traffic jam earlier. Perhaps we should have intelligent speed limits varying with conditions - so, 100mph at night and/or in light traffic, ranging down to 60 in the wet or in heavy traffic and 30 in the fog or snow, and to enforce them more rigorously, and to enforce safe gaps between vehicles, proper lane discipline etc.
Technically, speeds of 100 mph are safe enough on an empty motorway, but it's years since I've been on one of those. The usual situation is 3 lanes with vehicles at 60 ish on the inside lane, 70 in the middle and 80 plus on the outside. Vehicles are far too close together in general, especially on the outside lane where the habit is to sit on the bumper of the person you regard as going too slowly (even though he has a right to be there if he is actually overtaking). Also, going at 100mph uses more fuel and creates more emissions that at 70. Journey time saving? Maybe if the traffic isn't heavy, more usually you will just get to the next traffic jam earlier. Perhaps we should have intelligent speed limits varying with conditions - so, 100mph at night and/or in light traffic, ranging down to 60 in the wet or in heavy traffic and 30 in the fog or snow, and to enforce them more rigorously, and to enforce safe gaps between vehicles, proper lane discipline etc.
It's a shame that we should need speed limits to lower in bad weather, as people should instinctively slow down anyway - but you may well be right.
The technology is there right now, although in Germany, they have much more simple ways to warn people - like hanging banners from bridges!
Many autobahns are only two lanes and work fine. Everyone knows that there will be a differential in speed of huge amounts; and people in lane one won't just pull out in front of a car doing 200mph. That said, given the freedom and a sense of responsibility (in that you're pretty much on your own if you go above 130kmh), motorists don't get upset when they have to slow down. Over here, people take extreme offence and start flashing, hooting, tailgating and undertaking*.
You can go from 150 to 60mph and know that afterwards you can accelerate back up to speed - so there's less sense of having lost time because of some idiot who dared overtake. Oh, and people in lane 2 going fast also have the ability to see when a car is likely to want to overtake a lorry or caravan, and has already slowed or flashed them out.
To be fair, we do have the same courtesy here a lot of the time (I find it more in peak times where there are more 'nice' motorists than arrogant ones who drive like loons) but at other times, it's a nightmare and makes me realise why we could never see no limit ever return here (irrespective of the environmental issues).
* Yes that does happen in Germany, but nowhere near as much and the police take action and punish accordingly.
The technology is there right now, although in Germany, they have much more simple ways to warn people - like hanging banners from bridges!
Many autobahns are only two lanes and work fine. Everyone knows that there will be a differential in speed of huge amounts; and people in lane one won't just pull out in front of a car doing 200mph. That said, given the freedom and a sense of responsibility (in that you're pretty much on your own if you go above 130kmh), motorists don't get upset when they have to slow down. Over here, people take extreme offence and start flashing, hooting, tailgating and undertaking*.
You can go from 150 to 60mph and know that afterwards you can accelerate back up to speed - so there's less sense of having lost time because of some idiot who dared overtake. Oh, and people in lane 2 going fast also have the ability to see when a car is likely to want to overtake a lorry or caravan, and has already slowed or flashed them out.
To be fair, we do have the same courtesy here a lot of the time (I find it more in peak times where there are more 'nice' motorists than arrogant ones who drive like loons) but at other times, it's a nightmare and makes me realise why we could never see no limit ever return here (irrespective of the environmental issues).
* Yes that does happen in Germany, but nowhere near as much and the police take action and punish accordingly.
GearJammer
Member
Yes! who says the private road went to a house? And if it did who says it was her house? How do you know what directions she may or may not have been given, it may have been the first time shes been along that road looking for somewhere shes never been before and did'nt want to miss it, especially as you say theres a motorway a mile up the road, not easy to turn around without going miles out her way, just coz shes driving slowly does'nt mean shes a drink driver, thats the problem with most motorists these days........ NO PATIENCE!
I experienced an incident of this a couple of days back, I was driving down a motorway, slightly exceeding the speed limit, but not enough to get excited about, i was probably doing around 75-80, lad came up behind flashing and beeping in his heavily modified....wait for it.....Fiat Seicento. I nearly wet myself laughing at the sight. Anyway i had to move over as i was laughing so much at the cool lads, I drive a biturbo diesel, so had i been the type to show them how to drive at speed, i'd of dropped a gear and left them in a cloud of diesely smoke, and seen if they could keep up. Sadly i've grown up from embarrassing boy racer types in their little cars they have mistaken for Ferraris!
I am sure I can go and find out if you're really that interested, as you seem to be dead keen to defend her actions. There's rarely an excuse to drive at 20mph constantly for miles, on roads that range from 30-60mph. Try passing an IAM test and driving slow - they'll ask why you felt the need not to drive at the posted limit. Was it unsafe (explain), or were you not confident enough (fail)
I was behind her. She never even looked in her rear view mirror, so the thought that she was simply driving at 20mph because she was looking for a road she'd been given (poor) directions to seems rather unlikely. I mean, she never looked left, right or behind. I'm not convinced at the speed she was going she was really looking forward!
Anyway, I was there - you weren't. Maybe you're right. Maybe I'm right. We shall never know, but I've reported people to the police before who have been stopped and arrested for drink driving, all going quite slow thinking they'd fall under the radar. One even crashed off the road - but that one got away before the police arrived (as in ran off).
I am sure any police officer would get very suspicious if they saw someone driving so slow on a totally clear, open road in excellent conditions. But, if people wish to give them the benefit of the doubt then so be it.
You'd fail a basic driving test for hesitation i believe if you drive at 20 in a 30/40/50/60 etc
It's not actually for parking 'offences', as that is already the case. (As in, real parking tickets issued by police / local authorities).
It is to allow the landowner to take legal action against the keeper for breach of contract/trespass when a car is parked on private land. (So they don't have to find out who the driver is).
Yes, it would increase some carbon emissions to drive at 80mph, but it is always a balance with what is useful to society. We could ban all cars and decrease emissions massively, where do you draw the line?
I would suggest that improving methods of traffic-flow control would be more useful, but these have previously been discouraged as they raise less tax revenue.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7998182.stm
- Status