Bedford St Johns to Bedford - timings

[eMeS]

I note that the current timetable allows 6 minutes between these two stations (direction as in the subject line), but only 3 minutes in the reverse direction. There must be a simple reason for this but I can't think of it.

(It's not that hilly in Bedford, surely?)

 

[Lrd]

Probably padding, although 3 minutes isn't all that much tbh. Does it have to wait for a platform outside Bedford?

I've only used Bedford once, so can't remember the layout all too well.

 

[b0b]

Back in the day when I lived in Bedford, the Bletchley services terminated in their own platform, 1a?

 

[eMeS]

Probably padding, ...

By "padding" do you mean extra minutes in the schedule so that the TOC's chances of having to pay out for lateness is reduced?

I now note that in the other direction, there's a similar increase in the timings between Fenny Stratford when approaching Bletchley versus going from Bletchley to Fenny Stratford.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Back in the day when I lived in Bedford, the Bletchley services terminated in their own platform, 1a?

Still had it's own platform (which if I am correct is too short for a Thameslink train) last time I looked.

 

[class377man]

Still had it's own platform (which if I am correct is too short for a Thameslink train) last time I looked.

I believe you are correct, although the platform (it is 1a) is electrified for some reason.

 

[AlterEgo]

It does have it's own platform, but the route into it can conflict with moves from the carriage sidings.

However I've only seen that happen once, and rather suspect it's a case of padding...

 

[87015]

By "padding" do you mean extra minutes in the schedule so that the TOC's chances of having to pay out for lateness is reduced?

I now note that in the other direction, there's a similar increase in the timings between Fenny Stratford when approaching Bletchley versus going from Bletchley to Fenny Stratford.

Yes, it's not padding as such but public differential so the public arrival time is later than the working, increasing the chance of the train making PPM etc. This seems to be getting more common than ever IMO....

 

[MikeWh]

Yes, it's not padding as such but public differential so the public arrival time is later than the working, increasing the chance of the train making PPM etc. This seems to be getting more common than ever IMO....

Even to the point of looking silly sometimes. There is an arrival at Crayford in the evening from London via Woolwich at 1908, the stock then becomes the 1907 back to Cannon Street via Sidcup.


Not sure what this has to do with fares etc, can a mod move it please?

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Yes, it's not padding as such but public differential so the public arrival time is later than the working, increasing the chance of the train making PPM etc. This seems to be getting more common than ever IMO....

I think the worse case of "padding" was the retiming of the last weekday East Coast manline service into Kings Cross a few years back. It was due at 00:06 (before the last tubes left) but was retimed to 00:32 (after the last tubes had gone) to avoid forking out for taxis in the event of it's late running and to make people feel grateful when it actually arrived in time for them to make those last connections.

 

[12CSVT]

I believe you are correct, although the platform (it is 1a) is electrified for some reason.

Platform 1A is electrified because it is also used as a shunting spur for Bedford carriage sidings

 

[YorkshireBear]

i imagine its like burley park and leeds. 4 minutes from leeds to burley park its 11 minutes the other way. Should be too as it usually 5 minutes late into burley park on the way in anyway.

 

[westcoaster]

Platform 1A is electrified because it is also used as a shunting spur for Bedford carriage sidings

Also used for stabling overnight if the yard is full, a 4 car fits in platform 1a easily.

 

[andyfrommk]

Platform 1A is electrified because it is also used as a shunting spur for Bedford carriage sidings

I'm think I read somewhere that wires will go up as far as Bedford St Johns for shunting purposes,
Anyone else heard that or am I wrong?

 

[westcoaster]

I'm think I read somewhere that wires will go up as far as Bedford St Johns for shunting purposes,
Anyone else heard that or am I wrong?

You are correct, already in place, and switched on 2 weeks ago.

 

[12CSVT]

I'm think I read somewhere that wires will go up as far as Bedford St Johns for shunting purposes,
Anyone else heard that or am I wrong?

That's for the new sidings for when they start running 12 car trains

 

[ole man]

You are correct, already in place, and switched on 2 weeks ago.

Yes you are correct, i was there when it was made live, trains will go as far the road bridge then reverse back.
The last 20/30 metres of the OLE are permamently earthed as the road bridge is to low for live OLE,this will achieved by all trains having there rear pans operating.
I can't see train's going into Bedford St John's though, they will clear the pionts into the new sidings before they get that far

 

[Firestarter]

Also led to believe that there were plans for 1A to be extended to accommodate 12 car trains.

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/content/Detail.aspx?ReleaseID=5083&NewsAreaID=2

 

[ole man]

Also led to believe that there were plans for 1A to be extended to accommodate 12 car trains.

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/content/Detail.aspx?ReleaseID=5083&NewsAreaID=2

Intresting, i've been involved in all the work at Bedford station and the new siding's and have never heard about this.
I can't see how this can be done without knocking the station down and starting again.
Any work going south would seriously affect current Thameslink services, and to be honest there's not a lot of room to extend south.
To do this Bedford station and its infrastructure would have to altered completely,making this a huge job.

 

[Firestarter]

Intresting, i've been involved in all the work at Bedford station and the new siding's and have never heard about this.
I can't see how this can be done without knocking the station down and starting again.
Any work going south would seriously affect current Thameslink services, and to be honest there's not a lot of room to extend south.
To do this Bedford station and its infrastructure would have to altered completely,making this a huge job.

Apparently plans have been put on hold until after the completion of London Bridge works, do I'm not sure exactly what London Bridge has to do with another station a million miles away.

http://www.thameslinkprogramme.co.uk/news/news_items/view/50

 

[ole man]

Looking at Bedford Station is always makes me think why Network Rail has never thought of extending the Overhead Line on the up/down fast lines.They terminate about 1/4 mile south, this has never made any sense to me.
Platform 4 could be extended to suit 12 car trains quite easily.

 

[A0]

Looking at Bedford Station is always makes me think why Network Rail has never thought of extending the Overhead Line on the up/down fast lines.They terminate about 1/4 mile south, this has never made any sense to me.
Platform 4 could be extended to suit 12 car trains quite easily.

Wasn't platform 4 a recent addition though?

I suspect the need to run the train out south is the problem because the line to platform 4 comes in separate from the others IIRC.

As for the timing differences at both ends of the line, could this be because they are the single track pieces of line and they may be scheduled around other traffic?

 

[12CSVT]

Looking at Bedford Station is always makes me think why Network Rail has never thought of extending the Overhead Line on the up/down fast lines.They terminate about 1/4 mile south, this has never made any sense to me.
Platform 4 could be extended to suit 12 car trains quite easily.

There's never been any advantage in electrifying the fast lines north of Bedford South Junction (the up fast doesn't have a platform) and the down fast isn't bi-directional. Platform 4 is only for northbound EMT services.

 

[MK Tom]

Does anyone have any pictures of the new electrification? I had no idea that was happening. On a side note if full electrification of the MML does ever happen I think the marston vale line (if not all of EWR if that's open by then) should be electrified with it.

 

[A0]

Does anyone have any pictures of the new electrification? I had no idea that was happening. On a side note if full electrification of the MML does ever happen I think the marston vale line (if not all of EWR if that's open by then) should be electrified with it.

Marston Vale line, as it stands, doesn't have the passenger traffic to warrant electrification - I can think of far more suitable cases for electrification before that one stacks up. (e.g. Birmingham local lines, GWML, MML to Leicester, Reading>Basingstoke).

Not sure it even makes sense if EWR comes to pass.

 

[MK Tom]

The St. Albans branch justified it? I'm not suggesting electrifying it by itself, but as part of an MML scheme. It would enable through services from Leicester to Oxford and such like, not to mention freight.

 

[ole man]

I've got pictures on my computer at work, they are the new sidings, up/dn bletchley, and the runaround road, will email them to myself and post them up here
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Marston Vale line, as it stands, doesn't have the passenger traffic to warrant electrification - I can think of far more suitable cases for electrification before that one stacks up. (e.g. Birmingham local lines, GWML, MML to Leicester, Reading>Basingstoke).

Not sure it even makes sense if EWR comes to pass.

That would all depend on the East to West scheme getting the go ahead, and whether that would be electrified, if it will not have 25 kv then i agree the Bedford-Bletchley route would be a waste of time, but if it will get 25kv then you could wire all the to the Ecml i suppose

 

[A0]

The St. Albans branch justified it? I'm not suggesting electrifying it by itself, but as part of an MML scheme. It would enable through services from Leicester to Oxford and such like, not to mention freight.

Given Wikipedia reckons St Albans Abbey usage is approx 220k passenger journeys per annum, whereas none of the intermediate stations on the Bedford - Bletchley line exceed 50k, I'd say yes the Abbey line did justify it and no, Bedford - Bletchley doesn't. (I didn't look at Bletchley or Bedford Midland figures as they would be massively distorted by London traffic).

Through Leicester - Oxford services would only happen IF EWR happens, having said that, I think you've used a bad example, since Leicester - Oxford isn't a major passenger flow - I'd doubt it's enough to justify electrification - and there is a practical alternative route i.e. Leicester - Nuneaton - Birmingham - Oxford.

Similarly, I don't believe it would particularly benefit freight given that freight can already use the Bedford - Bletchley line if it needs to - I don't think there is a lack of links between the WCML and MML in that particular respect.

 

[MK Tom]

Yeah those are all fair points. I would say as a regular user of the Marston Vale line that the largest passenger flow is end to end rather than from any of the intermediate stops (hence the EWR plans skipping out everything except Woburn and Lidlington). It is also used often for through journeys like Leighton Buzzard - Bedford, Milton Keynes - Kettering and the like. With EWR and the improved journey times resulting from having only two intermediate stops I think its useage for that would increase. I'd never expected it to be electrified for its own sake, just thought it might be a tag-on to an MML scheme.

Going back to my other question, does anyone have any pictures of the new wires perchance?

 

[ole man]

I said above i have at work, i will e mail them to myself and post on here