Loss of Apprentice Jobs At bombardier.

[9K43]

In the UK once we were the workshop of the world, now we give all the contract to other people, whilst we linger jobless.

www.rmt.org.uk

NEWS RELEASE

October 4, 2011


Tory betrayal of Bombardier apprentices

AS THE Tory party meets in Manchester, rail union RMT today provided new information showing that nearly 250 apprenticeships and engineering jobs for new graduates from the Bombardier “Centre of Excellence” will be lost if the Government fails to reverse the decision to send the Thameslink fleet contract overseas.

The news coincides with the end of the statutory ninety day consultation on the loss of 1400 jobs at Bombardier’s Derby factory.

Bombardier would be forced to reduce apprentices by 15 this year due to the Thameslink loss and would recruit 10 per year instead of 20 for the next 7 years with the loss of 85 apprentices in total.

In addition, for the Engineering Centre of Excellence the Thameslink contract would have guaranteed an additional 150 permanent engineers. Also scrapped would be the commitment with JCB academy to develop future engineers where Bombardier had committed to invest in 2 students per year for the next 3 years to further develop skills for the future.
RMT General Secretary Bob Crow said

“The Tory Party will be spouting their usual warm words on training and apprenticeships whereas in reality they are on course to destroy career opportunities for a whole generation in Derby through their betrayal of Bombardier. They should be shamed into reversing this scandalous decision.

“With nearly a million young people out of work, kicking the legs from under a skills and training Centre of Excellence in the heart of the Midlands puts us on course for an action replay of Margaret Thatcher’s “lost generation” of the eighties. Same old Tories – bankers and speculators get away with murder while the kids who are our future are slung on the scrap heap.”














[

 

[Oswyntail]

Very one eyed release. Bombardier lost the contract, and RMT are trying to pretend it is better for the country to subsidise failure than to get best vfm. If Bombardier had a product that won contracts, these jobs would (possibly) no be lost.

 

[Yew]

Sighhhh. Are they still going on about that?

 

[route:oxford]

It makes me cringe when I see the anti-banker propaganda from Unite the Union outside town halls and hospitals. If you role back the clock a few years you find that BIFU (the banking, insurance and finance union) forms a constituent part of Unite...

Likewise the RMT have negoiated the £50K (media reports) salary for tube drivers in London, part of the reason for such a generous salary is no doubt because of the importance of the City.

Any hope of a response from Siemens to advise how many apprentices it currently has in the UK and how many it plans to take on?


(I'm a member of Unite the Union)

 

[Schnellzug]

tory betrayal? Why not blaim the Canadian owners, or the European head office of Bombardier in Berlin, for not making a competitive enough bid for the contract, or Siemens for making a product that so far has been delivered on time and seems to be pretty reliable? Perhaps Bombardier's Centre of Excellence wasn't quite excellent enough?

 

[mallard]

"Tory betrayal"!? Do they seriously think the outcome would be any different had Labour won the election?

Union finds new excuse to bash Conservatives. Yawn.

 

[es373]

Deleted.

 

[mallard]

They can't legally give Bombardier the contract without re-starting the entire tender process, delaying procurement of the stock by around 2 years. By this time the damage done by delaying the order will be far worse than any damage done by not awarding the contract to Bombardier.

Bombardier Derby's main hopes are pacer replacement and Crossrail. Thameslink is more-or-less a done deal and won't be changed.

Note this was a response to es373's now deleted comment above, where he suggested that this news would compel the government to give Bombardier the contract.

 

[Oswyntail]

Does anyone know whether Bombardier have any involvement in this campaign, or is it just unionised random Tory-bashing?

 

[Greenback]

Whatever it is, it has become rather tedious. Yawn.

 

[DarloRich]

typical Conservatives, cozying up to thier mates in the banks and the city ( and checking the value ofthier trust funds) while decent honest hard working men and women are put out of work. It will be a tax cut for the rich next! It the bankers what are to blame!

There are important points to be made about youth unemployment, access to further and higher edcuation, lack of skills, both core and otherwise in our society and a growing disenfranchisement, particulry in the young which the Conservatives seem unable or unwilling to address. This is not the way to do it, other than as use as a touch stone for the normal Tory bashing

 

[anthony263]

Are they still going on about this. Besides i think the unions should blame labour etc since they were the ones who made the rules. Dont they read what Bombardier say, they did say there would be job loses even with thameslink.

 

[Greenback]

There are important points to be made about youth unemployment, access to further and higher edcuation, lack of skills, both core and otherwise in our society and a growing disenfranchisement, particulry in the young which the Conservatives seem unable or unwilling to address. This is not the way to do it, other than as use as a touch stone for the normal Tory bashing

Quite so Darlo, quite so. I feel the RMT are simply making themselves look a bit silly now. Focusing on Bomardier and Derby merely deflects from these wider issues.

 

[asylumxl]

Simple fact is instead of offering a good product, Bombardier basically said "Here, have an Electrostar". They have to stop trying to recycle the design, it's getting very old now!

 

[mallard]

They have to stop trying to recycle the design, it's getting very old now!

Agreed. Both the Electrostar and Turbostar designs are starting to look rather dated now, particularly the "great expanse of white/beige" interiors.

Many elements of the design date back to the Networkers.

 

[tbtc]

AS THE Tory party meets in Manchester, rail union RMT today provided new information showing that nearly 250 apprenticeships and engineering jobs for new graduates from the Bombardier “Centre of Excellence” will be lost if the Government fails to reverse the decision to send the Thameslink fleet contract overseas

I thought there were only about 200 jobs "lost" due to the Thameslink order (the remainder of positions were being shed anyway)?

In which case the 250 apprenticeships sounds a bit fishy. But, it makes for a nice press release, they might as well head it "WILL NOBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN?"...

The news coincides with the end of the statutory ninety day consultation on the loss of 1400 jobs at Bombardier’s Derby factory

As I understood it, the vast majority of these jobs (over a thousand) were being lost anyway, as Bombardier "downsizes" its Derby operation.

Giving the impression that over a thousand jobs are being lost as a result of the Thameslink order is disengenuous (to be polite) - the RMT come out of this badly.

 

[mallard]

As I understood it, the vast majority of these jobs (over a thousand) were being lost anyway, as Bombardier "downsizes" its Derby operation.

That was the original line, which was mysteriously changed to saying that they hoped "mitigate" job losses if they had won the contract after Derby Council/the RMT took up the cause...

 

[tbtc]

That was the original line, which was mysteriously changed to saying that they hoped "mitigate" job losses if they had won the contract after Derby Council/the RMT took up the cause...

Funny that, eh?

Still, makes for a better headline if they can get people to associate "1,400 jobs lost" with "Thameslink contract lost"... who cares whether its true or not...

I wasn't too bothered either way about who won the Thameslink order (at the time), but since the announcement Bombardier and the Trades Union have behaved shabbily.

 

[ainsworth74]

I wasn't too bothered either way about who won the Thameslink order (at the time), but since the announcement Bombardier and the Trades Union have behaved shabbily.

Same for me really. To be honest I sort of hoped that Bombardier would win the order (I'm biased as my mum is from Derby so she indoctrinated me from a young age ) but mostly I wanted the order that best met the criteria that the specification laid down.

However since the contract was announced I've been so appalled by the tactics that have been undertaken by Trade Unions, Bombardier and local counsellors that to be honest they've lost any and all sympathy I may have had to their cause!

As for the article itself looking past the bias it does raise an important point in that youth unemployment is a serious issue and the loss of any positions like this is a blow but also apprenticeships themselves are vital for the health and future of any industry. You need only look at what happened to the submarine building industry during the 90s to realise that. So the loss of apprenticeships is always a concern. To be honest I would rather lose older workers than apprentices.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I didn't think Bombardier had done anything, which in itself is rather suspicious

 

[A0]

Perhaps the RMT should reflect on the decline of manufacturing as a share of the UK economy since 1997 - as ONS figures bear out.

And whilst Bombardier in Derby are having problems, perhaps the RMT should reflect on the article below http://www.economist.com/node/21524937 where it is pointed out UK manufacturing is actually in a surprisingly healthy state overall.

 

[starrymarkb]

Bombardier UK only seem to be interested in their existing designs whereas Siemens are a lot more flexible. Of course for custom short run builds look at Stadler

 

[ainsworth74]

Bombardier UK only seem to be interested in their existing designs whereas Siemens are a lot more flexible.

I've noticed that, they do seem to be from the Henry Ford* school of engineering in that it seems to be a case of:

"You can have any type of train that you like as long as it's a Turbostar or Electrostar."

* Ford once said "Any customer can have a car painted any colour that he wants so long as it is black."

 

[Schnellzug]

Bombardier UK only seem to be interested in their existing designs whereas Siemens are a lot more flexible. Of course for custom short run builds look at Stadler

And look at GE's willingness to design a completely new type of loco for an initial order of just 12 from Freightliner. Shows that a large scale manufacturer can be flexible if it thinks it might open up a new market for them.

 

[90019]

* Ford once said "Any customer can have a car painted any colour that he wants so long as it is black."

That's an urban myth
For the first few years of production of the Model T, they didn't even make them in black.

 

[ainsworth74]

That's an urban myth

Fair enough, but I'm just quoting from his own autobiography

 

[starrymarkb]

I've noticed that, they do seem to be from the Henry Ford* school of engineering in that it seems to be a case of:

"You can have any type of train that you like as long as it's a Turbostar or Electrostar."

* Ford once said "Any customer can have a car painted any colour that he wants so long as it is black."

Which lost them the IE order. IE wanted intercity railcars. Bombardier offered 170s. Order went to Hyundai

 

[fgwrich]

Which lost them the IE order. IE wanted intercity railcars. Bombardier offered 170s. Order went to Hyundai

Followed by the NIR Order...NIR Wanted something simular to the 3CKs, but more adapt to a mixed suburban type service - What did they offer, the by then unbuilt and already delayed 172...Needless to say, as bombardier were up the their usual sales attitudes of You can have any type of train that you like as long as it's a Turbostar, and thus didnt totaly meet the specs layed out by Translink, CAF took up the contract and so the 4000 Is born (A far superior unit to the 172 too!)