Birmingham-Belfast SailRail

[dvboy]

Looking at doing a journey from Birmingham-Belfast before the end of the year, out on a Friday or Saturday, returning on a Sunday or Monday, and looking for as much time in Belfast as possible. Any weekend after 12th November is good but ideally the 19-20th November or 3rd-4th December, and the earlier the better for the weather. Preferably I'd like to go out on the Holyhead route and return on the Stranraer route or vice versa.

Does anyone have any recommendations?
National Rail isn't showing the Stranraer route, and has two prices (£42 and £47) on tickest (seat61 suggests it should be £42)
Raileasy is suggesting I could return Sunday night and get the Glasgow-London sleeper but the fare isn't available.

 

[wintonian]

Looking at doing a journey from Birmingham-Belfast before the end of the year, out on a Friday or Saturday, returning on a Sunday or Monday, and looking for as much time in Belfast as possible. Any weekend after 12th November is good but ideally the 19-20th November or 3rd-4th December, and the earlier the better for the weather. Preferably I'd like to go out on the Holyhead route and return on the Stranraer route or vice versa.

Does anyone have any recommendations?
National Rail isn't showing the Stranraer route, and has two prices (£42 and £47) on tickest (seat61 suggests it should be £42)
Raileasy is suggesting I could return Sunday night and get the Glasgow-London sleeper but the fare isn't available.

£84 SOR via Stranraer
£84 ECR via Holyhead Stena ship or Irish Ferries ship
£92 ECR via Holyhead Stena HSS (not available until April 2012)
£94 ECR via Holyhead Irish Ferries Swift

Tickets were available from Arriva and SWT but I don't think they are at the moment so you need to go the station.

Tickets have no time restriction and are valid for return within 1 month.

The best thing to do is to look up the ferry times and train times separately and match them up.

No reservations are required.

 

[dvboy]

Ah, I see, so Birmingham-Belfast via Stranraer would be twice as expensive. In that case I think I'll go via Holyhead and Dublin each way.

I've flown before, and bmibaby are offering BHX-BHD for under £40 (plus a bus ride either end), but I fancy doing things differently this time.

Since the train fares are the same each weekend, when I go will really depend on when I can get the best priced hotel room.

 

[wintonian]

Ah, I see, so Birmingham-Belfast via Stranraer would be twice as expensive. In that case I think I'll go via Holyhead either way.

I've flown before, and bmibaby are offering BHX-BHD for under £40 (plus a bus ride either end), but I fancy doing things differently this time.

No all the prices I quote above are returns i.e. the Stranraer price is the same as going via Holyhead on the ship.

Singles are half the price of a return.

 

[dvboy]

OK thanks sorry I misread the post.

 

[wintonian]

And you can buy these tickets on the day of travel, but I would recommend buying them a day or 2 in advance as not everyone is used to selling these.

Holyhead Stena tickets I believe include the bus transfer to Dublin city centre, but both the Stena and Irish Ferries tickets include the train from Dublin to Belfast.

 

[dvboy]

I'm having trouble getting National Rail to give me times via Stranraer ferries. If I put "Avoid Holyhead" I get Rosslare-Fishguard ferries (which clearly I would have to buy seperate rail and ferry tickets for).

 

[wintonian]

I'm having trouble getting National Rail to give me times via Stranraer ferries. If I put "Avoid Holyhead" I get Rosslare-Fishguard ferries (which clearly I would have to buy seperate rail and ferry tickets for).

Look up the train times for Stranraer and then look up the ferry times on Stena's website.

 

[Flying Snail]

I'm having trouble getting National Rail to give me times via Stranraer ferries. If I put "Avoid Holyhead" I get Rosslare-Fishguard ferries (which clearly I would have to buy seperate rail and ferry tickets for).

What dates are you looking at? Stranraer port closes on November 21, after which Stena transfer to a new port near Cairnryan which has no direct rail connection. They have stated there will be bus transfers to Ayr but no timetables are available as yet.

 

[wintonian]

What dates are you looking at? Stranraer port closes on November 21, after which Stena transfer to a new port near Cairnryan which has no direct rail connection. They have stated there will be bus transfers to Ayr but no timetables are available as yet.

Thought that wasn't untill next year.

 

[dvboy]

What dates are you looking at? Stranraer port closes on November 21, after which Stena transfer to a new port near Cairnryan which has no direct rail connection. They have stated there will be bus transfers to Ayr but no timetables are available as yet.

Thanks for that info. My first option is to travel out on the 18th or 19th and return on 20th or 21st, so potentially could end up on the last ferry to Stranraer. Having looked on the Stena website, there are no ferries on 21st so I would have to come back that way on Sunday, but the Stranraer-Ayr leg is by bus.

If I did choose this, however, would my ticket be valid on the Sleeper from Glasgow-Watford Junction on the Sunday night, coming back to Birmingham from WFJ on the 6:37 Monday as raileasy.co.uk suggests (but will not allow purchase of) or do I need a seperate ticket for WFJ-BHM?

LM WebTIS suggests I could travel to Westerton and pick up the Sleeper to Crewe on Monday night but not Sunday night, any ideas why?

Lastly, is a break of outward journey in Dublin on Friday afternoon allowed? If not, since I have to transfer from the ferry port to Connolly station by bus anyway, surely it would be easy to get away with it?

 

[wintonian]

Thanks for that info. My first option is to travel out on the 18th or 19th and return on 20th or 21st, so potentially could end up on the last ferry to Stranraer. Having looked on the Stena website, there are no ferries on 21st so I would have to come back that way on Sunday, but the Stranraer-Ayr leg is by bus.

If I did choose this, however, would my ticket be valid on the Sleeper from Glasgow-Watford Junction on the Sunday night, coming back to Birmingham from WFJ on the 6:37 Monday as raileasy.co.uk suggests (but will not allow purchase of) or do I need a seperate ticket for WFJ-BHM?

LM WebTIS suggests I could travel to Westerton and pick up the Sleeper to Crewe on Monday night but not Sunday night, any ideas why?

Lastly, is a break of outward journey in Dublin on Friday afternoon allowed? If not, since I have to transfer from the ferry port to Connolly station by bus anyway, surely it would be easy to get away with it?

On my way out so I'll answer acouple of your questions quickly.

Tickets are valid on the sleeper you still need to pay the supplement if you want use of a berth.

Break of journey is allowed, but the outward journey must be completed the same day.

 

[dvboy]

On my way out so I'll answer acouple of your questions quickly.

Tickets are valid on the sleeper you still need to pay the supplement if you want use of a berth.

Break of journey is allowed, but the outward journey must be completed the same day.

Re the sleeper, is that even to double back from Watford Junction to Birmingham?

Same day is what I was after. Seat61 suggests it isn't and the next available train has to be taken from Dublin-Belfast but it's hard to see how it would be enforceable
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Is a berth mandatory on the sleeper?

 

[wintonian]

Re the sleeper, is that even to double back from Watford Junction to Birmingham?

Same day is what I was after. Seat61 suggests it isn't and the next available train has to be taken from Dublin-Belfast but it's hard to see how it would be enforceable
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Is a berth mandatory on the sleeper?

you can not normaly double back

there has been some confusion about break of journey recently It's my understanding that this now permitted, and in any case it is unenforceable in such a situation, I normaly stop in Dublin.

you can use the seated portion of the sleeper.

 

[dvboy]

I'm trying to understand the Sleeper - would I be able to walk onto it at Glasgow Central with my Belfast-Birmingham ticket at take a seat, or do I need to reserve a seat, and how much would that cost?

I assume I wouldn't be able to double back then, and instead of the £42 single from Belfast-Birmingham I in fact need a £49 single from Belfast to Watford Junction and a seperate ticket for the 0637 WFJ-BHM presently at £19 advance.

Unless I can get to Westerton for 2313 for the sleeper that calls at Crewe... I think the reason why that's not coming up on WebTIS is because the only possible journey to meet it is Stranraer-(by bus)-Ayr-Glasgow Central-Partick-Westerton arriving 2310, leaving a 3 minute connection, and to be honest, I don't fancy being stranded in the suburbs of Glasgow late on a Sunday night if I miss it.

 

[island]

If you do break your journey, bear in mind that Irish Rail will not let you board a train if the ticket is past its printed valid until date, even if the NRCoC would otherwise permit it.

 

[wintonian]

I'm trying to understand the Sleeper - would I be able to walk onto it at Glasgow Central with my Belfast-Birmingham ticket at take a seat, or do I need to reserve a seat, and how much would that cost?

I assume I wouldn't be able to double back then, and instead of the £42 single from Belfast-Birmingham I in fact need a £49 single from Belfast to Watford Junction and a seperate ticket for the 0637 WFJ-BHM presently at £19 advance.

Unless I can get to Westerton for 2313 for the sleeper that calls at Crewe... I think the reason why that's not coming up on WebTIS is because the only possible journey to meet it is Stranraer-(by bus)-Ayr-Glasgow Central-Partick-Westerton arriving 2310, leaving a 3 minute connection, and to be honest, I don't fancy being stranded in the suburbs of Glasgow late on a Sunday night if I miss it.

You do in theory need a reservation for the sleeper however if there are spare seats when you get to the station you should be ok, if there are no spare seats the you will have to wait until the next train.

 

[embers25]

Had no issues on Dublin to Belfast or Belfast to Londonderry with my ticket. Stena is quite novel as the bus from Holyhead to the ferry actually goes on the ferry with you to Dublin so before arrival you rejoin it on the car deck and it takes you to Dublin terminal then you walk through baggage claim and straight onto the free Stena chartered double decker which stops at Connolly (next to the Luas) and then Westmoreland Street. Despite arriving seemingly after Irish Ferries we still arrived 20mins earlier into Dublin due to the shorter trip and also not having to wait for the service bus you use (and pay on) from Irish Ferries. The Dublin side was actually very very efficient and speedy.
Break of journey is in theory no hassle although Virgin guards (shock horror) seemed to disagree and gave me the third degree on why I had not taken a direct London-Holyhead train! Chiltern had no issue and actually couldn't believe how far I was travelling or when I was going to arrive! Cheap way to trial Mainline in peak too! I used the 1630 and it kept time well until Dorridge when LM chaos delayed us. They seem to have speeded up the lines through Banbury station too.

 

[dvboy]

If you do break your journey, bear in mind that Irish Rail will not let you board a train if the ticket is past its printed valid until date, even if the NRCoC would otherwise permit it.

I only plan on breaking it by a few hours, not overnight.
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You do in theory need a reservation for the sleeper however if there are spare seats when you get to the station you should be ok, if there are no spare seats the you will have to wait until the next train.

Does the reservation cost anything? Again, I don't want to be waiting around Glasgow in the middle of the night if I miss it. (4:28 is the first on Monday, change at Lancaster)

However - having thought about it, could I break my journey in Glasgow on the way back, and get a later VT service Monday?
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OK so this is what I'm going to do unless anyone can think of anything better?

Outward Friday 18th Nov:
0736 Birmingham New Street - Crewe 0830
0848 Crewe - Chester 0912
0922 Chester - Holyhead 1107
1200 Holyhead - Dublin Port (Irish Ferries)
transfer to Dublin Connolly, break jounrey
1520, 1620, 1900 or 2050 Dublin - Belfast

Return, Sunday 20th November
1700 Belfast - Stranraer ferry
1945 Stranraer - Ayr 2117 (by rail replacement bus)
2125 Ayr - Glasgow Central 2221
2244 Glasgow Central - Partick 2251
2302 Partick - Westerton 2310 (tight connection)
2313 Westerton - Crewe 0537 (sleeper)
0547 Crewe - Birmingham New Street 0658
... and if I miss the 2313 from Westerton:
2328 Westerton - Glasgow Queen Street 2347
walk to Glasgow Central
0428 Glasgow Central - Lancaster 0635
0658 Lancaster - Birmingham New Street 0855

Now someone will come along and give me a reason why I can't do that on a Birmingham-Belfast ticket, and if it comes to it, I'll get the return portion to Watford Junction instead as described earlier.

 

[wintonian]

No I'm not going to tell you that you can't do this.

But I would like to offer 1 or 2 suggestions:

Your connection at Westerton as you relies is tight, to me it seems far too tight as it is below the minimum recommended 8 min connection time and thus you won't be covered for assistance if you are late arriving and miss it.

With the Stena ferry situation changing then I would be inclined to do the trip in reverse; out via Stranraer and in via Holyhead.

Tickets for travel starting in Northern Ireland or Ireland cannot be bought in the UK, but can be bought at the travel centre at the Europa bus station, this is closed on Sundays and I think has a half day on Saturdays. Tickets from Dublin to the UK can be bought at Connolly station.

 

[dvboy]

Your connection at Westerton as you relies is tight, to me it seems far too tight as it is below the minimum recommended 8 min connection time and thus you won't be covered for assistance if you are late arriving and miss it.

NRE recommends 5 minutes at Westerton, as it's a platform each way connected by a bridge. I've done tighter connections at Par in Cornwall which is a similar station.

What I was thinking about not being able to do is whether I'd be able to go to Glasgow on this ticket should I miss the sleeper.

Going the other way I did look at...

I could go Thursday night on the Sleeper, arrive Stranraer at 0921 for the 1145 ferry to Belfast. The first ferry on a Saturday is 1500 from Stranraer so I'd leave BHM at 0720 and miss the opportunity to travel on the sleeper altogether.

I would either need to be up very early to leave Belfast on Sunday or Monday morning and I'd still have little to no time in Dublin, or spend the hours of 0030-0448 Tuesday morning in sleepy Holyhead.

 

[Liam]

2125 Ayr - Glasgow Central 2221
2224 Glasgow Central - Partick 2251
2302 Partick - Westerton 2310 (tight connection)
2313 Westerton - Crewe 0537 (sleeper)

Theres a 2234 from Glasgow Central Low Level to Westerton arriving at 2252.

 

[wintonian]

NRE recommends 5 minutes at Westerton, as it's a platform each way connected by a bridge. I've done tighter connections at Par in Cornwall which is a similar station.

What I was thinking about not being able to do is whether I'd be able to go to Glasgow on this ticket should I miss the sleeper.

Going the other way I did look at...

I could go Thursday night on the Sleeper, arrive Stranraer at 0921 for the 1145 ferry to Belfast. The first ferry on a Saturday is 1500 from Stranraer so I'd leave BHM at 0720 and miss the opportunity to travel on the sleeper altogether.

I would either need to be up very early to leave Belfast on Sunday or Monday morning and I'd still have little to no time in Dublin, or spend the hours of 0030-0448 Tuesday morning in sleepy Holyhead.

Hmm not really sure if you can do that without buying another ticket back to Glasgow - best to check I think.

As for the overnighter at Holyhead I have done it twice now (not really out of choice) and I survive with an iPod, newspaper and a coffee and bottle of water before the cafe shuts - it stays open until the overnighters have been seen to, unsurprisingly most of them want at least a coffee. Admittedly by the time the first train comes you’ll be glad to leave.

 

[dvboy]

Theres a 2234 from Glasgow Central Low Level to Westerton arriving at 2252.

Thanks, that helps a lot! I assume this doesn't show up on WebTIS because the connection is less than the 15 minute recommendation, but at 13 minutes, it seems better than 3 at Westerton.

(amended original post to show correct dep from GLC of 2244 not 2224)
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Hmm not really sure if you can do that without buying another ticket back to Glasgow - best to check I think.

As for the overnighter at Holyhead I have done it twice now (not really out of choice) and I survive with an iPod, newspaper and a coffee and bottle of water before the cafe shuts - it stays open until the overnighters have been seen to, unsurprisingly most of them want at least a coffee. Admittedly by the time the first train comes you’ll be glad to leave.

That would be fine, but I'd probably want to sleep! I can only afford to take one day's holiday from work, so I'd be straight into work Monday/Tuesday morning (hence preferring the sleeper).

 

[Flying Snail]

Firstly, Apologies. I was incorrect in the earlier post. The final day of sailings to Stranraer is Sunday 20 November, not 21 Nov as I stated.

I only plan on breaking it by a few hours, not overnight.
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Does the reservation cost anything? Again, I don't want to be waiting around Glasgow in the middle of the night if I miss it. (4:28 is the first on Monday, change at Lancaster)

However - having thought about it, could I break my journey in Glasgow on the way back, and get a later VT service Monday?

Reservations for seats on the sleeper are free.

OK so this is what I'm going to do unless anyone can think of anything better?

Outward Friday 18th Nov:
0736 Birmingham New Street - Crewe 0830
0848 Crewe - Chester 0912
0922 Chester - Holyhead 1107
1200 Holyhead - Dublin Port (Irish Ferries)
transfer to Dublin Connolly, break jounrey
1520, 1620, 1900 or 2050 Dublin - Belfast

Return, Sunday 20th November
1700 Belfast - Stranraer ferry
1945 Stranraer - Ayr 2117 (by rail replacement bus)
2125 Ayr - Glasgow Central 2221
2224 Glasgow Central - Partick 2251
2302 Partick - Westerton 2310 (tight connection)
2313 Westerton - Crewe 0537 (sleeper)
0547 Crewe - Birmingham New Street 0658
... and if I miss the 2313 from Westerton:
2328 Westerton - Glasgow Queen Street 2347*
walk to Glasgow Central
0428 Glasgow Central - Lancaster 0635
0658 Lancaster - Birmingham New Street 0855

Now someone will come along and give me a reason why I can't do that on a Birmingham-Belfast ticket, and if it comes to it, I'll get the return portion to Watford Junction instead as described earlier.

The train you have as leaving Central at 22.24 should read as 22.44, there is also a direct train from Central at 22.34 arriving at Westerton 22.52. This is less than the 15min min connection time but should be no problem as long as the train from Ayr is on time.


It is worth pointing out that the 12.00 Holyhead-Dublin sailing is on the Jonathan Swift fastcraft and is subject to cancellation in anything above moderate sea conditions. If this happens you will be carried on the 14.10 sailing instead. I find it is always a good idea to cater for this in any plans and not to rely on the fastcraft.

Tickets for travel starting in Northern Ireland or Ireland cannot be bought in the UK, but can be bought at the travel centre at the Europa bus station, this is closed on Sundays and I think has a half day on Saturdays. Tickets from Dublin to the UK can be bought at Connolly station.

Raileasy seem to have no problem with them, I just tried it through to the payment screen.

The other option for travelling from Belfast is to purchase the through ticket from Stena at the port.

On Sundays there is no bus service to Belfast port from the city centre.

A Belfast-Birmingham ticket would not be valid on the Glasgow-Euston sleeper as via Watford/Euston is not a valid journey, if using this method a Belfast-London (or WFJ) and seperate ticket onward to Birmingham would be required.

If you were to do that to Euston you could zip over to Marylebone and take the 08.37 67+Mk3 set to Moor Street for £7.50 advance.

 

[wintonian]

A Belfast-Birmingham ticket would not be valid on the Glasgow-Euston sleeper as via Watford/Euston is not a valid journey, if using this method a Belfast-London (or WFJ) and seperate ticket onward to Birmingham would be required.

If you were to do that to Euston you could zip over to Marylebone and take the 08.37 67+Mk3 set to Moor Street for £7.50 advance.

Very good point I forgot the OP was coming from Birmingham at that point.

 

[dvboy]

Just realised the Holyhead-Dublin at 1200 is the £47 Swift service so now I'm weighing up whether £5 is worth the extra time in Dublin and the free bus,... I think so. Booking this isn't a problem.

For the return leg, I need to book the ferry reservation and the sleeper reservation. I tried to book the whole journey on online but as the return train journey isn't recognized because of the shorter than recommended connection at GLC.

Assuming I can't buy the return journey ticket this side of the Irish Sea in person as has been suggested above, do I need to have a ticket to book a seat reservation on the sleeper before I go or can I get this without a ticket?
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Raileasy seem to have no problem with them, I just tried it through to the payment screen.

Yep but as above, not with the shorter than recommended connection time.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

On Sundays there is no bus service to Belfast port from the city centre.

Thanks for this tip.

you could zip over to Marylebone and take the 08.37 67+Mk3 set to Moor Street for £7.50 advance.

Sadly I need to be back in Birmingham for 1000 otherwise I would make a morning of it in London. Would rather take the sleeper from Westerton and be back in Birmingham at 0658.

 

[Smethwickian]

Tickets for travel starting in Northern Ireland or Ireland cannot be bought in the UK.

Has that changed this year, then?

Last year having made separate arrangements for a trip from Birmingham to Belfast then Dublin and needing to return via Holyhead, I was refused the sale of a single from Dublin to Birmingham at Birmingham New Street travel centre and rang Virgin customer services to complain. A very helpful lady there checked with Virgin's retail management and confirmed that I should have been able to buy one (as they are all priced as singles anyhow, whichever direction - at that time you just paid the current advertised price in sterling if buying in the UK and in Euros if buying in Eire). I returned to New Street, to a different clerk, later that day and had no issue. Buit as I say, that was last year.

If there's no longer the flexibility to book singles either side of the Irish Sea that's a shame, as it takes away from the simplicity that the partners had managed to bring to the central rail-sea corridor.

 

[wintonian]

Has that changed this year, then?

Last year having made separate arrangements for a trip from Birmingham to Belfast then Dublin and needing to return via Holyhead, I was refused the sale of a single from Dublin to Birmingham at Birmingham New Street travel centre and rang Virgin customer services to complain. A very helpful lady there checked with Virgin's retail management and confirmed that I should have been able to buy one (as they are all priced as singles anyhow, whichever direction - at that time you just paid the current advertised price in sterling if buying in the UK and in Euros if buying in Eire). I returned to New Street, to a different clerk, later that day and had no issue. Buit as I say, that was last year.

If there's no longer the flexibility to book singles either side of the Irish Sea that's a shame, as it takes away from the simplicity that the partners had managed to bring to the central rail-sea corridor.

As far as I was aware this has been the case for some time, one of the reasons why I sometimes buy a single from Connolly station. But thinking about it may just be the Stranraer route this applies to.

When you buy your outward tickets ask if they will do the return as well.

In anycase I find it much easier and qucker to buy these tickets at Connolly station.

 

[embers25]

If you do break your journey, bear in mind that Irish Rail will not let you board a train if the ticket is past its printed valid until date, even if the NRCoC would otherwise permit it.

They let me on and checked the ticket at Connolly and on board and NIR checked it at Belfast Central, Belfast Victoria Street and on board all with no hassle and it was the day after validity as I'd travelled overnight.