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Manchester Metrolink second city crossing

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Nym

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Will Metrolink on the Oldham line run to Market Street, how many will run to Picc Stn? And if there is a second crossing, how is that any good to me.

The best thing I can see Metrolink doing is making the roads and the buses quieter, when that is the case will we need upto 18 buses p/h on the Oldham Rd corridor?

It should, or over the 2CC, from what I can tell the current South Mancs Services terminating at Victoria will run on to Oldham.

And First GM Buses North will continue to have much much cheaper ticketing than metrolink, and may start off having a competing offer on a certain set of services, like the First Day/Week Wigan only tickets when they moved in to compete with South Lancs Travel.
 
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Phil6219

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I have a fairly low opinion of the Second City Crossing, mainly due to my low opinion of the Metrolink in general. Don't get me wrong I think it has its good points but for someone who lives out in an area where the nearest rail station is nearly 4 miles away, the buses are dire the met is just irrelevant in my day to day life.

Sure I have been using it several times a week recently between Weaste and Deansgate but I never have the need to use it. Mostly my daily interaction is stuck at traffic lights which are being held up for trams, in the city centre this is irritating but in certain parts of Salford it is down right annoying when your light is held at red, the tram passes and the system clears the others and holds you junction again.

I am not looking forward to the traffic problems that will be caused because of this, I get the feeling the only reason they are planning on implementing traffic control is to stop people moaning about trams blocking their paths. Not to mention how bus companies will probably run services along the lines of those proposed during the (thankfully) failed congestion charge.

I only see an increase in capacity here rather than a surge in numbers because of the "new" route. Given that the existing stops are within most able bodied peoples walking distance of The printworks, Urbis, The Arndale etc... A bigger issue that needs tackling is Piccadilly Gardens and the total chaos with tram jams which then block the buses. Hopefully the 2nd crossing will actually see services diverted along this route to ease the numbers, or will Metrolink just run even more trams along that line and keep the Gardens jammed?

I have always said that a better solution to Piccadilly Gardens in general is an underground tram station with a bigger bus station located above. Nothing fancy, just something similar to the Piccadilly Station tram stops but fully underground rather than under building. Then the bus station can be enlarged again and that farce can finally end. (in the sense of there are too many buses all trying to get into a select number of stands, add trams into the mix trying to cut across and it all goes nanas...)

As for buses, the 34 still runs (albiet as the X34, and from Leigh & Lowton to Manchester), the 39 runs from Manchester to Leigh but only as a nightbus and then only on a Friday & Saturday night. The 35 (which shared a very similar Leighbound daytime route) was canned at the same time as the 39 day. The 12 was then switched from Bolton (seriously how many buses do they need) to Leigh via Walkden in a way taking over the majority of the 35s route. The 26 remains the semi-fast from Leigh to Manchester but now thanks to various things has the reliability of a chocolate tea-pot (long story). Worth pointing out that the 32 is the only daytime bus from Manchester to Wigan and stops in the early evening. The 33 no longer does Manchester - Wigan during the day but only goes as far as Worsley with a 15 minute frequency (handy because they are mostly late) and goes the whole hog after 19:00 from Manchester, but only until 10pm...

With regards to the Bolton remark I mean they have a number of services all running at 10 minute frequencies as well as a well served train station. Leigh on the other hand does not, the 26 runs from Shudehill half an hour opposite the 12. The 12 and X34 depart within minutes of each other and the 12 sometimes only goes as far as either Walkden or Atherton. Though Bury, Oldham and Rochdale have a high number of services too. Which again is rather irritating given that our local councils are handing over shedloads of money to pay for a guided bus way that nobody wants (we want the railway back) mainly due to the traffic problems that will cause.

I'm going to call it a day before I really go off on one (I've tried ringing First today to complain - thanks to their shoddy 1st bus of the day my jobs now hanging in the balance).

I'm off for a beer :)

Phil 8-)
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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I saw a very large poster/sign at Manchester Victoria station concerning the Second City Crossing and stating that all comments would be noted, but as something of a fait accompli, the route of the original proposals was clearly shown for all to see on this advertising matter.
 

nidave

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Will Metrolink on the Oldham line run to Market Street, how many will run to Picc Stn? And if there is a second crossing, how is that any good to me.

The best thing I can see Metrolink doing is making the roads and the buses quieter, when that is the case will we need upto 18 buses p/h on the Oldham Rd corridor?

You are never going to please all the people all the time. There is capacity issues to take into account in Market Street and Piccidilly gardens...
I thought when they were re developing Piccidilly gardens they were going to add a 2nd platform (where the bloody great concrete wall was) - its a shame they dint.

What tends to happen as the capacity freed up by the tram will be filled by other commuters. I am pretty sure Metrolink does not relieve congestion it just creates capacity so more people can get about. This is is (supposedly) seen as good as it encourages business to come to Manchester as they dont have to worry as much about employees getting into the town.

Did you know the old Arndale centre had a tram stop in the basement ready built... I believe they were going to have the tram go underground through the city centre but couldn't afford it :) - the stop was removed when they blew it up.
 

WatcherZero

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It was actually a Continuance of Government bunker, part of the problem with the proposed Picc-Vic underground route was it had to dodge basements and bunkers leading to some really weird access arangements.
 

snail

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It was actually a Continuance of Government bunker, part of the problem with the proposed Picc-Vic underground route was it had to dodge basements and bunkers leading to some really weird access arangements.
Is that the one they put BT cabling in that had a bad fire several years back?
 

WatcherZero

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Thats another bunker to ensure communications survive, I think its callled the Guardian.
 

table38

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Thats another bunker to ensure communications survive, I think its callled the Guardian.

That's the one, there's some info here

There's a ton of stuff under Manchester (like any big city I suppose).

Like the River Tib that is culverted and runs under Oldham Road/Tib street, Debenhams, the Town Hall and into the River Medlock behind the Bridgewater Hall.

There's also an old canal tunnel which runs from the Irwell under Camp Street and the old Central Station.

And some tunnels under Victoria Station with allegedly the cab of 142059 in it.
 
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nidave

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It was actually a Continuance of Government bunker, part of the problem with the proposed Picc-Vic underground route was it had to dodge basements and bunkers leading to some really weird access arangements.

I was told there was a metrolink station there as well. with a platform and everything. Was I misinformed that the one of the plans was to run the metrolink underground through the City center?
 

Samtron2000

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I was told there was a metrolink station there as well. with a platform and everything. Was I misinformed that the one of the plans was to run the metrolink underground through the City center?

The foundations of the Arndale were constructed to accommodate the proposed Picc-vic Royal Exchange station. Basically the foundations were shallower at that point so not to interfere with the planned tunnels. No station orplatforms were ever built, that's just an urban myth!!!
 

Phil6219

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That's the one, there's some info here

There's a ton of stuff under Manchester (like any big city I suppose).

Like the River Tib that is culverted and runs under Oldham Road/Tib street, Debenhams, the Town Hall and into the River Medlock behind the Bridgewater Hall.

There's also an old canal tunnel which runs from the Irwell under Camp Street and the old Central Station.

And some tunnels under Victoria Station with allegedly the cab of 142059 in it.

142059's cab is indeed in the tunnel, there was a picture of it online at one point before it got pulled, the link may have been in the 28DL website at one point too.

There sure is plenty of stuff under Manchester, the Cathedral Steps is a big one, Wiki Link and has been explored, see the below links for pictures.

Link 1

Link 2

Sadly if the area's redevelopment goes ahead this site will be destroyed, along with it a little glimpse into a bit of preserved and long forgotten Manchester Wartime history.

Phil 8-)
 

37410

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This is just a stupid idea as I can't see the problem with just calling at a few stops between Manchester Victoria and St.Peters Square and just leave the Cenotaph where it is rather than relocate to to another part of Manchester as the St.Peters Square stop will just be more congested with more people.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Another part of Manchester? its about 100m its being relocated.

I note your answer to 37410 and I think that you most certainly did make the reasons clear for not having extra Second City Crossing stations near to the Town Hall and outside the Exchange Theatre on another thread recently, which could have been used to allay his fears on this matter.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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The TfGM media centre has published some statistics with regard to the Second City Crossing 14-week public consultation that TfGM organised, in which the preferred route options and new stations en route to Manchester Victoria station were shown and the results are said to be:-

71%.....Positive overall

19%....Negative overall

10%....Neutral
 
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