DRS apply to run Carlisle-Sellafield service

[northwichcat]

DRS have applied to run a Carlisle to Sellafield service using a 4 car mk2 set hauled by class 37s. There would be one morning and one afternoon working calling at Dalston, Wigton, Aspatria, Maryport, Flimby, Workington, Harrington,
Parton, Whitehaven, Corkickle, St. Bees, Nethertown and Braystone.

No application for a Crewe/Warrington to Sellafield service as previously mooted though.

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...11/drs model_passenger_contract_200411[1].pdf

 

[ainsworth74]

You link is broken.

 

[michael769]

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...11/drs model_passenger_contract_200411[1].pdf

 

[northwichcat]

It normally turns anything starting http:// in to a working link automatically but this time it only changed part of the link in to an actual link.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The length of the document of 123 pages took quite some time to read and digest. The Passenger Train slots (Table 2.1) are on page 53 and the Calling Pattern details (Table 4.1) are on page 56. The locomotive and coaching stock are detailed in Table 5.1 on page 58.

As a mathematician, I liked the formulae in Section 3.1 (Variable Track Usage Charges) on pp.69/70 and in Section 6 (Capacity Charges) on pp.72/73.

On a related Cumbrian connection, Direct Rail Services have suggested the establishment of a railhead at Georgemas on the Far North line from which they would hope to use to transport breeder material from the decommissioning of the closed Dounreay nuclear site to Sellafield for processing.

 

[fgwrich]

Interesting - Also makes a change to see something finnaly happening with this proposal, something that had been mooted for a good few years!

Wonder, as it's no doubt intended for Sellafield workers only but will still have to use the National Rail Sellafield station, as to whether us public would be able to make use of it too?

The other thing im intregued with this proposal, is where are DRS going to find the Mk2s? The stored Mk2 brake in Eastleigh now seems to be being worked on again, but without purchasing stored Mk2s, it'll be interesting to see where they come from.

 

[Schnellzug]

So would this be like an open access service? Interesting. Would it be available to the public, or is it just for High Security people?

 

[GNERman]

Public preferably, ah one can only hope...

 

[ainsworth74]

So would this be like an open access service? Interesting. Would it be available to the public, or is it just for High Security people?

You would hope but it might make life interesting with regards to ORCATs and the distribution of revenue between DRS and Northern (and TPE?). Unless of course they only offered DRS Only tickets and refused to take passengers on any other ticket types.

 

[swt_passenger]

These services have not been discussed with Passenger Focus. As access to these trains is to be restricted to Sellafield employees, then it is not foreseen that Passenger Focus will be involved.

From the associated Form 18 Track Access application...

 

[ainsworth74]

Ahh yes well that rather puts the kibosh on public services then doesn't it. Still at least it should help deal with overcrowding on the existing services as they will hopefully have far fewer Sellafield employees to carry.

 

[Schnellzug]

So in effect they'd be like Workman's Specials? That's got to be the first one of those for a while.

 

[rail-britain]

From the associated Form 18 Track Access application...

I searched for an objection from Northern Rail and could not find one
Therefore it will operate more as a secured charter service
Presumably the employees (unions) complained about the service from Northern Rail and no action was taken so this was seen as a viable solution (here is the cost, so here is the fare)

 

[Busterfridge]

While fishing today on whitehaven pier, a class 57 (drs) and 2 mark 2 coaches came into whitehaven at about 11:30, i was to far away to see which 57 it was or who if anybody was in the coaches, possibly a 'practice run' ?

 

[sprinterguy]

While fishing today on whitehaven pier, a class 57 (drs) and 2 mark 2 coaches came into whitehaven at about 11:30, i was to far away to see which 57 it was or who if anybody was in the coaches, possibly a 'practice run' ?

It could just have been DRS' two barrier vehicles being returned from a working somewhere, but you never know.

 

[michael769]

It could just have been DRS' two barrier vehicles being returned from a working somewhere, but you never know.

I'm guessing the DRS drivers will need to sign for passenger services?

 

[Hydro]

Some already do, don't they, for the Belle and the boat train?

 

[tirphil]

On a related Cumbrian connection, Direct Rail Services have suggested the establishment of a railhead at Georgemas on the Far North line from which they would hope to use to transport breeder material from the decommissioning of the closed Dounreay nuclear site to Sellafield for processing.

Is there not some freight handling capacity at Georgemass Junction already? EWS used to run the Safeway train to Georgemass Junction for supermarket traffic as well as some steel pipe traffic, that is until Morrisons took over Safeways. Can't remember which year that was though. 2004/5?

 

[scotsman]

Is there not some freight handling capacity at Georgemass Junction already? EWS used to run the Safeway train to Georgemass Junction for supermarket traffic as well as some steel pipe traffic, that is until Morrisons took over Safeways. Can't remember which year that was though. 2004/5?

Something, but nowhere near what is required to satisfy the HSE, the Police or DRS.

 

[Hydro]

Is there not some freight handling capacity at Georgemass Junction already? EWS used to run the Safeway train to Georgemass Junction for supermarket traffic as well as some steel pipe traffic, that is until Morrisons took over Safeways. Can't remember which year that was though. 2004/5?

Something, but nowhere near what is required to satisfy the HSE, the Police or DRS.

Which appears to be a bit of fence, a portacabin and a 56 ton gantry crane judging by what I've seen at Berkeley, Dungeness, Bridgwater and Torness. The Bridgwater compound appears to be at the end of a residential street.

 

[Toots]

DRS already has a safety case to operate passenger services in the form of charter trains,this is an extension of that,so any service that does arise would be based on that premise,thus negating the ORCAT's process.As far a loss the loss of revenue to Northern is concerned,the problem is that of capacity at certain times.There can be few places where passenger numbers spike so markedly for such short periods .Rush hours usually last for 3-4 hours either end of the normal working day ,and with a good flow of leisure passengers, diagramming, and it's provision are lot easier than at this location where everybody comes out of one place at roughly the same time all wanting the same train,so Northern are in a dilemma of needing extra capacity for what effectively is just two trains a day,and the cost of providing this,and then having them run empty the rest of the day makes it unfeasible,whereas the company that is creating the need actually has not only the capacity but also the wherewithall to provide it.
The one problem is that with all the fare revenue that Northern lose,it will be increasingly difficult for them to offset the cost of running the rest of their services on that line without asking for a much greater subsidy.

 

[IanXC]

The one problem is that with all the fare revenue that Northern lose,it will be increasingly difficult for them to offset the cost of running the rest of their services on that line without asking for a much greater subsidy.

Anyone fancy seeing DRS use this stock at other times of the day, subcontracted, for peanuts, to Northern to balance this all out?!

 

[Lampshade]

To be fair, any revenue Northern lose as a result of this is their own fault. They secured a 153 to strengthen Cumbrian Coast services but instead used it in Yorkshire; if DRS will do a better job then it's all good.

 

[Toots]

Are you sure about that?.I'm only saying that because I was in a conference where the the guy from Northern said any extra stock to supplement services was paid for by the various councils and if that council had stumped up money,then that's where it had to go.He said Yorkshire and Liverpool had done this (this was about three years back),and even if say,Manchester was short,those extra carriages had to go to that council's services who had paid for them.
So if you are correct ,it probably has something to do with the financing of that unit rather than Northern making a unilateral decision.

 

[krisk]

Whatever it is the Cumbrian Coast needs an improvement in services rapidly.

 

[northwichcat]

To be fair, any revenue Northern lose as a result of this is their own fault. They secured a 153 to strengthen Cumbrian Coast services but instead used it in Yorkshire; if DRS will do a better job then it's all good.

Apparently this was down to Northern having spare units while the engineering works were taking place on the Barrow line so while DfT let Northern sublease a 153 from LM for providing extra seats on the Cumbria Coast, they didn't need to send it up to Cumbria as they already had a spare carriage, so Neville Hill benefited from having an extra unit available. When the Barrow line reopened Northern had more units out-of-service in maintenance than they should have done and because of that some services had to get shorter trains than they should have done and the Cumbria Coast was the first one to lose it's extra unit.

I'm only saying that because I was in a conference where the the guy from Northern said any extra stock to supplement services was paid for by the various councils and if that council had stumped up money,then that's where it had to go.He said Yorkshire and Liverpool had done this (this was about three years back),and even if say,Manchester was short,those extra carriages had to go to that council's services who had paid for them.
So if you are correct ,it probably has something to do with the financing of that unit rather than Northern making a unilateral decision.

Not 100% accurate there. Northern receive subsidies from PTEs for providing extra seats on services. In the instance of a class 180 Northern aren't getting a subsidy off TfGM for using the 180 on the peak time services in and out of Manchester, they are getting a subsidy for Northern providing at least 287 seats on those services. If Northern use 2x156s they would get exactly the same subsidy. Northern could chose to run a single 156 instead of a 180 but in doing so they would lose their subsidy for doing so, which is why PTE area services are less likely to be short formed than non-PTE area services because Northern want to get as much money as possible.