Cashless Society ?

[Mutant Lemming]

I notice that the FGW machine at Bourne End no longer accepts cash due to 'repeated atacks and vandalism'. Is this a step towards cash free ticketing whereby you can only pay by credit, debit or some kind of top up smartcard the companies issue themsleves ?

 

[Schnellzug]

So if you don't have a Credit card, does that mean you're not permitted to travel from Bourne End, or are they not as anal about "You Must buy a Ticket before you get on one of our Trains", like the Award Winning Greatest Train Company in the Country (c. Barry Doe)? I do like the phrase "cash free"; makes it sound as if it's such a utopian situation where you're releived of the need to worry about carrying about this old fashioned "cash"; instead, you can trust the Banks to provide an unlimited supply for all you could possibly need.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Thankfully it was FGW and not FCC so no penalty fares although I wonder what the guard would have done had I asked for a single to Inverkip with a sackful of coins.

 

[Yew]

What Would happen of you didn't want to pay on a card, but had one with you? Because you haven't had the opportunity to buy with your preferred method?

 

[Zoe]

Thankfully it was FGW and not FCC so no penalty fares although I wonder what the guard would have done had I asked for a single to Inverkip with a sackful of coins.

FGW do have penalty fares and Bourne End is a station in the penalty fares scheme: http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Documents/Custom/Penalty Fares maps.pdf

 

[glenbogle]

So what happens to children and people without cards like the unemployed, surely they won't get penalised.

 

[WestCoast]

I believe in that situation, the full range of tickets would be available to purchase onboard. Penalty fares require sufficient ticket issuing facilities at the station, which must accept cash. If you present a card onboard to the guard, then the story may be different.

A 'cashless society' isn't too far off in Britain, after all internet transactions require a card or similar. I was on a domestic flight in the USA and the only way you could purchase items onboard was a credit/debit card or pre-paid voucher.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I notice that the FGW machine at Bourne End no longer accepts cash due to 'repeated atacks and vandalism'. Is this a step towards cash free ticketing whereby you can only pay by credit, debit or some kind of top up smartcard the companies issue themsleves ?

The ticket machines that London Midland plan to install after the booking office cuts are also card-only. Must admit, I am surprised at 'vandalism' in somewhere like Bourne End.

 

[glenbogle]

A lot of ticket vending machines in Scotland are card only due to the same reason.

 

[exile]

It won't be long before we all have cards which we can load up with cash at an ATM and use for minor purchases.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

. Must admit, I am surprised at 'vandalism' in somewhere like Bourne End.

The pub next to the station there is notorious - doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Any machine with cash in it is an obvious target for those who see such an opportunity to avail themselves of the proceeds. Years ago, telephone boxes were raided on a regular basis. Companies can use the fear of such occurences to introduce methods suitable to their own needs and not those of their customers.

Has anyone forgotten the about-turn of the banking industry on the matter of cheques?

Of course, bank ATM machines have been targetted in the recent time with organised crime using chains, grapplers and heavy lorries to rip them out of walls.

 

[junglejames]

So if you don't have a Credit card, does that mean you're not permitted to travel from Bourne End, or are they not as anal about "You Must buy a Ticket before you get on one of our Trains", like the Award Winning Greatest Train Company in the Country (c. Barry Doe)?

What are SWT going to do in this situation? They cannot do anything. The guard may try and be anal about it, but he HAS to offer the full range of tickets onboard, as you never had the ability to buy a ticket before getting on.
Just dont then go and buy your ticket onboard using a card!!!

Have SWT ever come out and say you must always have a ticket before boarding even if you couldnt buy one? Ive never heard it.

 

[swt_passenger]

Have SWT ever come out and say you must always have a ticket before boarding even if you couldnt buy one? Ive never heard it.

Yes they have, it is a fairly regular automatic announcement, both on station announcements and on the train's internal audio and visual systems. They simply annnounce "you must buy a ticket before travelling on one of our trains" and there are no caveats about not being able to buy one; however it still cannot override the NRCofC rules about tickets having to be sold on board if there were no facilities available - and that includes TVMs that don't accept cash.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

What Would happen of you didn't want to pay on a card, but had one with you? Because you haven't had the opportunity to buy with your preferred method?

I did have a card on me but I'll be damned if I am going to put it in to a machine that the company themselves admit is subject to attacks and vandalism. By not having any cash in the machine they have tacitly admitted that hey have lost control of the situation. They should either re-open the booking office or declare the service an old style paytrain (which it basically IS now anyway).

 

[route:oxford]

So what happens to children and people without cards like the unemployed, surely they won't get penalised.

Well, you can have a debit card at 11 years old. I'm not entirely sure how many 10 year olds and under use the train,whilst travelling alone, for leisure these days though.

Can't think of any reason why "the unemployed" wouldn't have a card either.

Essentially these days nobody is prevented from having a plastic payment card - it's a personal choice.

 

[Get-Pulled-Off]

A 'cashless society' isn't too far off in Britain, after all internet transactions require a card or similar. I was on a domestic flight in the USA and the only way you could purchase items onboard was a credit/debit card or pre-paid voucher.

About time too, cash is a right pain in the bum. Sooner we are completely cashless the better.

 

[dk1]

Why cant we have contactless transactions on buses? The big operators should really have a word with themselves. In London Oyster works well as its the capital & many people go there at some point with a huge reliance on public transport. In other towns/cities though contactless would save me worrying about exact fare or embaressment. After all these low cost items are exactly what it is aimed at.

 

[Metrailway]

Well, you can have a debit card at 11 years old. I'm not entirely sure how many 10 year olds and under use the train,whilst travelling alone, for leisure these days though.

Can't think of any reason why "the unemployed" wouldn't have a card either.

Essentially these days nobody is prevented from having a plastic payment card - it's a personal choice.

Oh yes they are - about 1 million adults do not have a bank account in the UK

 

[whhistle]

So if you don't have a Credit card, does that mean you're not permitted to travel from Bourne End. . .

Or you can just use a debit card?
If you have a bank account (I would suggest the majority of people do), then you will have a debit card with that.

Every company caters for the majority.

 

[jon0844]

I hope we will get contactless payment on all buses soon, but the usage seems to be pretty low despite advertising; I now try and use mine whenever I see a card machine that is enabled, and the amount of times the staff are confused is amazing. (Not buses, but ordinary shops)

I've had some take the card off me and put it in the slot, with me pointing out that I've already paid - but they have never had anyone do it before and I spend the time I could have paid by C&P or cash, or cheque, or a bank transfer, explaining.

 

[island]

Oh yes they are - about 1 million adults do not have a bank account in the UK

He said "is prevented from having a plastic payment card" — which they aren't. The only people who are so prevented are those under 11 or those with absolutely no method of verifying their identity. Even bankrupts can open a basic bank account.

 

[EM2]

Even bankrupts can open a basic bank account.

But not all of those accounts give the option of a payment card.

 

[jon0844]

And, going forward, contactless payments introduce another problem in that you can spend more than you have in your account. This is, presumably, because these debits aren't authorised as with a normal payment. If so, not everyone will be given one surely?

The £15 limit protects you and the bank, especially as a stolen card could only (AFAIK) be used three times in any 24 hour period before the PIN is required (a PIN be asked at any time randomly too) - thus the risk of loss from a stolen card is just £45.

I guess that also means merchants don't need to have a constant connection for authorisations when using contactless - which is good for buses. That is until you travel out of London and want to buy a daily/weekly ticket, or tickets for more than one person, that comes to over £15! You'll presumably be told you can swipe your card for up to £15 and have to pay cash for anything else! I can't see most buses taking ordinary debit/credit cards for the forseeable future (coaches excepted).

 

[IanXC]

Why cant we have contactless transactions on buses? The big operators should really have a word with themselves. In London Oyster works well as its the capital & many people go there at some point with a huge reliance on public transport. In other towns/cities though contactless would save me worrying about exact fare or embaressment. After all these low cost items are exactly what it is aimed at.

I use a contactless card to pay for my daily park and ride bus journey. Its a "Minster card" issued by First!

He said "is prevented from having a plastic payment card" — which they aren't. The only people who are so prevented are those under 11 or those with absolutely no method of verifying their identity. Even bankrupts can open a basic bank account.

I'd have to say that I do not believe there are any persons who cannot verify their identity in some way. From my (professional) experience those who claim to not be able to either, are trying to commit criminal offences, or for one reason or another choose not to deal with the kinds of organisations who are able to issue relevant documents.

 

[junglejames]

Yes they have, it is a fairly regular automatic announcement, both on station announcements and on the train's internal audio and visual systems. They simply annnounce "you must buy a ticket before travelling on one of our trains" and there are no caveats about not being able to buy one; however it still cannot override the NRCofC rules about tickets having to be sold on board if there were no facilities available - and that includes TVMs that don't accept cash.

Well thats a very poor, and threatening announcement. Oh hold on, 90% of the privatised railways now sound threatening!!
SWT should change the announcement, as it could put people off.

Ah, do SWT stations have permit to travel machines? That may cover the announcement, just.

 

[WestCoast]

Ah, do SWT stations have permit to travel machines? That may cover the announcement, just.

They do at about 5 stations, but many stations just have a TVM.

 

[ChrisCooper]

More and more buses are starting to go for smartcards, but it's slow. In Nottingham both the two main operators have smartcards, infact Nottingham City Transport had them well before London. I don't know how widely they are used though, other than for season tickets and free passes. Arriva Midlands has now fitted readers and uses them for free passes, but not anything else yet. Anglian in Norfolk also has the same machines and capabilities as Arriva.

 

[kikin38]

I was very surprised to find out that some banks only offer cashcards. I thought debit cards were the norm but it seems not. My BIL can only withdraw cash from an ATM with his card, he is not able to use it for payments in shops etc. He banks with Nationwide and IS unemployed. My other half's best friend has only recently (last 2 years?) been given a debit card with his Nationwide account despite being neary 30 and in long term employment.

 

[Wyvern]

Trent Barton have Mango cards. EMT are trialling another system for journeys to and from St. Pancras. Within a decade we will be walking around with wallets full of all sorts of different cards.

However new bank cards will also have RFID on them, with a £10 limit, in addition to chip and pin. Perhaps now is the time to standardise before different companies adopt a welter of different cards.