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Graffiti on a Northern Rail Class 333

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JamesHorrell

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Well this morning i went on the Bingley Bypass and as me and my dad was going along a class 333 took over and on the rear carriage they was two lots of graffiti on the left hand side covering half of the windows and it was running the Skipton - Leeds route.

So i was just wondering which one was it and how come it hasn't been taken off?
 
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MCR247

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Well this morning i went on the Bingley Bypass and as me and my dad was going along a class 333 took over and on the rear carriage they was two lots of graffiti on the left hand side covering half of the windows and it was running the Skipton - Leeds route.

So i was just wondering which one was it and how come it hasn't been taken off?

How come it hasn't been taken off? Because they haven't had chance? Hmm cancel the service or take of graffiti....?
 

strange6

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Well this morning i went on the Bingley Bypass and as me and my dad was going along a class 333 took over and on the rear carriage they was two lots of graffiti on the left hand side covering half of the windows and it was running the Skipton - Leeds route.

So i was just wondering which one was it and how come it hasn't been taken off?

Ask Northern
 

strange6

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Any other stereotypes for us this evening?

People who committ crime like this generally have a record and do not have jobs.
I have learned a very valuable lesson this past week of not being drawn into arguements by provocative comments so I shall say no more :)
 
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WestCoast

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It's better not to cancel because of graffiti. Or, you might end up with this type of graffiti...

funny-graffiti-train.jpg
 

Nym

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People who committ crime like this generally have a record and do not have jobs.

Can I have a source for that, look at some of the pepole and their professions who where rioting?

Who is usually the guy doing 120mph down the M6?

Speaking as someone who knows what the cross section of populous in a HMP is, a lot of them have to have had jobs to be convicted of anything... Embeselment etc.
 

142094

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Only reason a service with graffiti would be cancelled is if it has obsecene/racist langauge on it.

Are Northern 333s still stabled at Skipton ready for the morning peak?
 

BestWestern

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That 156 is shocking. It amazes me why TOCs are willing to leave their units sat overnight at locations which are very obviously not at all secure :| The damage to the company image must be prett substantial I would imagine, although for Northern perhaps that isn't really an issue?! Somehow I doubt you'd see an SWT unit pulling into Waterloo looking like that! :o
 

JamesHorrell

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Only reason a service with graffiti would be cancelled is if it has obsecene/racist langauge on it.

Are Northern 333s still stabled at Skipton ready for the morning peak?

Yeah they are as my dad see them sometimes when he passes the siding.
 

sprinterguy

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That 156 is shocking. It amazes me why TOCs are willing to leave their units sat overnight at locations which are very obviously not at all secure :| The damage to the company image must be prett substantial I would imagine, although for Northern perhaps that isn't really an issue?! Somehow I doubt you'd see an SWT unit pulling into Waterloo looking like that! :o
It'd cost Northern more in unnecessary ECS moves and the associated fuel and staff costs than it does to occasionally have to scrub down a graffiti covered carriage if they were to run the unit in from another, more secure, location each day, and there might not be the depot space elsewhere or the paths betwixt depot and starting point for the units' first service.
 

WestCoast

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That 156 is shocking. It amazes me why TOCs are willing to leave their units sat overnight at locations which are very obviously not at all secure :| The damage to the company image must be prett substantial I would imagine, although for Northern perhaps that isn't really an issue?! Somehow I doubt you'd see an SWT unit pulling into Waterloo looking like that! :o

SWT...

189316977_6630fe8982.jpg


FCC..
graffiti-train-farringdon-01.jpg


To be honest, I doubt the public care that much as long as the train isn't cancelled because of it. TOCs brand reputation isn't the same concept as a supermarket, for example.
 
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swt_passenger

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SWT do try their utmost not to run units in service after such attacks, but will do if the alternative was to cancel a service.

They did once say that they wouldn't use their TPE liveried 158s into Waterloo - does that count as annoying graffiti as well?
 

WestCoast

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SWT do try their utmost not to run units in service after such attacks, but will do if the alternative was to cancel a service.

I am sure the policy at Northern is the same, however it's much preferable not to cancel a service and Northern don't have much 'slack' in the fleet. I was just highlighting that other TOCs have to run 'attacked' trains too.

They did once say that they wouldn't use their TPE liveried 158s into Waterloo - does that count as annoying graffiti as well?

That's called being fussy :lol:, EMT had to operate their services in various liveries (CT/TPE/ATN) as there was no other 158s for their Liverpool - Norwich service!
 

swt_passenger

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That's called being fussy :lol:, EMT had to operate their services in various liveries (CT/TPE/ATN) as there was no other 158s for their Liverpool - Norwich service!

SWT did use them, just not into Waterloo. No such problems on the Reading to Brightons (at that time), or the Hampshire locals...
 

BestWestern

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SWT...

To be honest, I doubt the public care that much as long as the train isn't cancelled because of it. TOCs brand reputation isn't the same concept as a supermarket, for example.

SWT very definitely take their brand image very seriously, one of the few TOCs who do. Just look at the general standard of their train presentation and compare it to other regional operators. I'm not at all suprised at the FCC unit, recalling the state of their 319s running around in TL grey/TL blue & yellow/Southern green etc and any combination of the above in multiple :roll: Northern's fleet in general seems a bit of state to be be honest, it's a shame when you board a newly painted train to find the interior looks like it's going to an 80's night
 

Phil6219

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I've got a few dozen stereotypes but won't bother sharing them... <D

The FCC 319 has had some attempt at a clean, shame the scroats that did it didn't fry themselves doing it (though then again we would hear how the big bad railway took a cherub's life :roll: )

SWT have more slack and more available units than Northern do, SWT also care considerably about their image. Given how Northern have been dumped on with old stock I'm surprised they actually care enough not to stick a Northern label over the "new livery".

The areas probably do have some form of CCTV, just like trackside areas in crime hotspots have "smart water" but neither deter the criminals. Perhaps a swift kicking for the guilty party would solve the problem? <D

Phil 8-)
 

ChiefPlanner

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I set up a zero tolerance graffiti policy , back in the day , which basically allowed a tagged train to complete its journey (rather than cancell say a peak trip - better a train than no train) - but for the set to be taken out and cleaned asap - even if it meant much swopping around of sets. Graf vandals thrive on seeing their creations out on the road , so spoiling their cred in this way was an attack on them and their egos. Another thing to do was to spoil their "art" by putting a streak of white paint across it (until it could be cleaned off)

Policy worked well - with only a few major hits - at Xmas and New Year we put on a load of extra security and did not outstable at vulnerable , quieter locations - thus we didnt get a single attack - unlike some other TOC's , who got a lot of trains painted.

In terms of internal tagging - we used to clean if off asap - special measures being taken to do so as part of normal terminal cleaning.

These were tips I picked up from the New York subway - which in the 1980's cracked the problem - I spent an afternoon in Coney Island yard (on a personal holiday I hasten to add) , seeing how they managed the "clean car" policy.

BTW - many of the vandals were quite well off , middle class types.
 

142094

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I set up a zero tolerance graffiti policy , back in the day , which basically allowed a tagged train to complete its journey (rather than cancell say a peak trip - better a train than no train) - but for the set to be taken out and cleaned asap - even if it meant much swopping around of sets. Graf vandals thrive on seeing their creations out on the road , so spoiling their cred in this way was an attack on them and their egos. Another thing to do was to spoil their "art" by putting a streak of white paint across it (until it could be cleaned off)

Policy worked well - with only a few major hits - at Xmas and New Year we put on a load of extra security and did not outstable at vulnerable , quieter locations - thus we didnt get a single attack - unlike some other TOC's , who got a lot of trains painted.

In terms of internal tagging - we used to clean if off asap - special measures being taken to do so as part of normal terminal cleaning.

These were tips I picked up from the New York subway - which in the 1980's cracked the problem - I spent an afternoon in Coney Island yard (on a personal holiday I hasten to add) , seeing how they managed the "clean car" policy.

BTW - many of the vandals were quite well off , middle class types.

Perfect example of the Broken Window Theory.

I've seen a few different methods to stop graffiti but the best so far has been quickly remove it and then they don't bother.
 

ChiefPlanner

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Getting a few arrests helps - and by getting local publicity afterwards is very effective.

Ditto for trackside vandalism.

We had 2 youths nicked for stone throwing at Milton Keynes - part of their punishment was to explain to the traincrew involved why they did it. Very humbling for the miscreants to say the least. Not exactly a victimless crime then.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Do the manufacturers of these aerosol sprays now liaise with bodies where their products are illegally used and produce special sprays that can remove or make easy to remove the graffiti. Most rail liveries are now vinyl-based and surely, it is not "rocket-science" to develop such products, with the technology available today.
 

michael769

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Do the manufacturers of these aerosol sprays now liaise with bodies where their products are illegally used and produce special sprays that can remove or make easy to remove the graffiti. Most rail liveries are now vinyl-based and surely, it is not "rocket-science" to develop such products, with the technology available today.

The main problem is that when used for it's intended purpose you want spray paint to provide a durable permanent covering - something that does not really fit with being easy to get off.

There are coatings available that make spray paints easer to remove, but I'm not sure how they would work with Vinyl. Removing it from paintwork usually damages the underlying paint (for obvious reasons), though if the original paintwork is "2-pack" based a cellulose thinner can remove it without causing too much damage as long as you do it before it has time to fully cure.

On other non-painted surfaces a mixture of lactic and citric acid (think milk and orange juice), gets it off.
 
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