Ordsall Lane Junction Points failure this morning

[strange6]

There was a points failure in Manchester this morning at Ordsall Lane Junction which resulted in my Liverpool - Manchester Airport service standing at a signal for 40 minutes! That along with the departure boards failure cause chaos in Manchester today. From a signalling perspective, who decides which trains get priority in this situation when all is well again? Is it up to the individual signallers or does it come down from upon high?

 

[Rugd1022]

Regulation of traffic comes from higher up, and as I'm sure you can imagine congested areas like Manchester need everything moving in the right sequence (as much as possible anyway!) so's not to make the situation worse.

Regualtion is a strange thing though... many's the time I've been near enough on time with my train, only to be looped or held back somewhere to let a late unning 'liner pass me... making me late! Often as not this usually happens to me on the Oxford - Birmingham route.

 

[First class]

Points Failure Ordsall Ln Jn

2504pts failed no reverse. No Access from Up Chat Moss to Up Bolton at Ordsall Lane.

 

[strange6]

Points Failure Ordsall Ln Jn

2504pts failed no reverse. No Access from Up Chat Moss to Up Bolton at Ordsall Lane.

They did get them quickly fixed in all fairness

 

[nr_signaller]

Regulation of traffic comes from higher up

Not necessarily. I prefer to not be a robot thanks!

 

[strange6]

Not necessarily. I prefer to not be a robot thanks!

I thought that a bit odd. Common sense dictates it should be left to the actual people controling the traffic on the panel or else even bigger delays would result. I think we did get priority because we got a green at the junction signal all the way up to Oxford Road coming from Eccles and it's always approach controlled to a yellow normally

 

[Nym]

Yep, when everything went wrong at our depot in Bolton, we'd have our drivers work out who did what and went where to cover it, not the idiots in Worcester that don't have a clue what lies on what route and think it's a good idea to put Whitby on a run with the next nearest drop in Middlesbrough, rather than the run that goes to Scarborough and Pickering, the bosses always know what the're doing, NOT! Hence why we had vehicles scheduled to take 2 tonnes more than the 880kg the're licenced to take!

Back on topic, it should be up to the signallers, with input from station staff potentially, as to passenger loadings/

 

[Get-Pulled-Off]

By default it's the signaller that chooses the priority but Control may dictate they want a particular train to go first. They generally do not give orders for EVERY train, just particular ones they want to be given priority. The obvious rationale being they can see the "bigger picture" and can liase with the TOC with regards crew relief etc.

 

[Rugd1022]

Not necessarily. I prefer to not be a robot thanks!

Apologies if I've caused offence, I certainly didn't intend too! It's just that on my patch nobody seems to be able make a decision without making a phone call to someone higher up the food chain, especially when it all goes belly up. It's more prevelant with the larger PSBs I work under.... quite a few bobbies I know have received right royal rollockings for allowing things to run out of sequence / using their initiative.

 

[strange6]

Apologies if I've caused offence, I certainly didn't intend too! It's just that on my patch nobody seems to be able make a decision without making a phone call to someone higher up the food chain, especially when it all goes belly up. It's more prevelant with the larger PSBs I work under.... quite a few bobbies I know have received right royal rollockings for allowing things to run out of sequence / using their initiative.

It's called company politics, mate! Goes on everywhere does that

 

[Get-Pulled-Off]

quite a few bobbies I know have received right royal rollockings for allowing things to run out of sequence / using their initiative.

If everything's late, a signalman will not get a rollocking for making a decision or using their initiative. One thing Control hate is to be pestered for bread and butter decision making. Are you perhaps confusing running trains early out of course? That's a different matter entirely.

The only time a signalman may get a rollocking is if Control have requested you run Train A, and decide to run Train B instead. A Control request takes priority over the classification of trains, booked order, or PPM policy.

If nobody gives me any other instructions I will run them in the order I see fit based on a multitude of factors, speed, stopping pattern, routing, lateness, PPM, turnaround time and others. If someone reviews it at a later date and says "it would have been better if you had done x,y,z" it's only a chat, not a rollocking. And I politely remind them I'm dealing with it in real time, with phones ringing off the hook, and they are sat in a nice comftable office with a brew and all the time in the world.

 

[Rugd1022]

If everything's late, a signalman will not get a rollocking for making a decision or using their initiative. One thing Control hate is to be pestered for bread and butter decision making. Are you perhaps confusing running trains early out of course? That's a different matter entirely.

The only time a signalman may get a rollocking is if Control have requested you run Train A, and decide to run Train B instead. A Control request takes priority over the classification of trains, booked order, or PPM policy.

If nobody gives me any other instructions I will run them in the order I see fit based on a multitude of factors, speed, stopping pattern, routing, lateness, PPM, turnaround time and others. If someone reviews it at a later date and says "it would have been better if you had done x,y,z" it's only a chat, not a rollocking. And I politely remind them I'm dealing with it in real time, with phones ringing off the hook, and they are sat in a nice comftable office with a brew and all the time in the world.

Sorry, meant to reply to this last night but time and rotten shifts this week got the better of me.... no, I wasn't confusing out of course working with what I said earlier, but a few signalmen I know have received angry phone calls and memos from on high regarding letting right time freights out in front of very late passenger workings with plenty of margin to stop them getting into trouble. I was working one of these myself at the time and found out about the commotion it caused two nights later.

That aside though, I shall doff my proverbial cap in the general direction of all signalling staff on here, I'm not sure I could do your job but dare say you'd be fine and dandy doing mine. The New Street bobbie I spoke to several times yesterday morning whilst stuck behind a failed 350 at Lea Hall was under a lot of pressure by the sounds of it... I'm much happier 'in the chair' !

 

[nr_signaller]

Sorry, meant to reply to this last night but time and rotten shifts this week got the better of me.... no, I wasn't confusing out of course working with what I said earlier, but a few signalmen I know have received angry phone calls and memos from on high regarding letting right time freights out in front of very late passenger workings with plenty of margin to stop them getting into trouble. I was working one of these myself at the time and found out about the commotion it caused two nights later.

I must say ive never been questioned running an on time freight in front of a late passenger if there is the margin.

Always try and keep the freights goin if I can! Especially if its a 90 on the front..