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You are applying your own filter to this though Sprinter107. You do not need such announcements. However, many of the public travelling with you do need such announcement, as evidenced by the freeloaders and grifters who use the railway.
No, I dont think so. If someone wishes to evade their fare they will, no matter how many or how long the announcements. Ive been on the railway for many many years, all roles customer facing, and theres not much I havent seen. The majority of passengers are fine, and they do not need announcements like that.
Talking of hyperverbosity, I'm reminded of a notice I saw on a bus many years ago: "Passengers desirous of alighting are respectfully requested to indicate their intention by means of the bell".
You are applying your own filter to this though Sprinter107. You do not need such announcements. However, many of the public travelling with you do need such announcement, as evidenced by the freeloaders and grifters who use the railway.
It also makes anyone not entirely sure about their ticket nervous about consequences. What should be done is quite simply to charge people up. That happens in public too. I don't want to hear a five minute diatribe about ticket restrictions and how the guard will take pleasure in meting out punishment, I've got the right ticket, just deal with those people properly as and when and let me zone out please. That's how it happens in other civilised countries.
I have absolutely no problem at all with this approach. The railway is plagued by freeloaders and grifters. Nobody who has purchased an appropriate ticket and has acted in a fair and honest way should be even slightly bothered by the above.
We’ll have to agree to differ. I travel every week with Grand Central, on advances, which must equate to a four-figure sum spent with them each year. I expect to be welcomed on board, not ranted at.
Shops are also plagued by theft, but they don't go out of their way to create a hostile atmosphere towards the majority of their customers, who are honest and law abiding...
No, I dont think so. If someone wishes to evade their fare they will, no matter how many or how long the announcements. Ive been on the railway for many many years, all roles customer facing, and theres not much I havent seen. The majority of passengers are fine, and they do not need announcements like that.
Point well made, and I'm in full agreement. The constant mantra of penalties and punishments repeated ad nauseam after every station call makes for a generally unpleasant atmosphere on board. I strongly suspect that law-abiding but nervous passengers actually feel less safe, imagining that they are surrounded by criminals and thugs during every journey.
We’ll have to agree to differ. I travel every week with Grand Central, on advances, which must equate to a four-figure sum spent with them each year. I expect to be welcomed on board, not ranted at.
May I offer an alternative view? You spend a four figure sum on rail journeys. If you think about it, that is a heavily subsidised price. The cost of running the railway - ranging from maintenance, running costs, new builds, rolling stock upgrades and procurement and so much more - you can add at least one zero and probably more onto what your ticket should actually cost. But the taxpayer considers it worthwhile to subsidise your journey because of the economic value it adds by enabling your movement. It prioritises your journey over hospitals, nurses, military and more. Yet it also has to increase the rail subsidy to fund the grifters and freeloaders. Which means less public money for things that are actually valuable.
So, whilst you expect to be welcomed, you should at least consider the railway and public really need to do their upmost to reduce how much subsidy your ticket requires. If that means sitting through an announcement or two then it really isn't so bad. Turn your anger onto the grifters, not the staff.
That’s not really equivalent, is it, though? No supermarket in the country makes people listen to a lecture on entering the shop about how people mustn’t leave without paying, how shoplifting is a criminal offence, how abusing staff is a criminal offence and you could be prosecuted, how you mustn’t get things down from the high shelves yourself, etc. These topics are dealt with by the store teams as and when they arise.
There is a culture on the railway in this country of dumping every piece of information anyone might possibly want to know, right at the start of the journey and at multiple intervals throughout. This leads to information overload because important information (train destination, departure time, next stop) carries the same weight and is mixed up with information that might only become relevant at some point in future (keep your drink in your bag until you’re back at your seat; do not abuse our staff, we have body worn cameras and lawyers; don’t put your feet/luggage on the seats; just because the train has stopped we might not be at a station; don’t play music out loud or take phone calls if you’re in the quiet carriage; by the way if you have the wrong ticket we’ll charge you £100+ or prosecute you.)
The result is minute after minute of noise which makes people turn off and creates the impression of a hostile environment that treats everyone like children, and this is before we even consider the attitude of a small minority of staff that seems to enjoy patronising customers.
Other countries such as Switzerland, Austria, Germany, The Netherlands, Finland, etc. manage to do announcements in 2, 3, or even 4 languages in the time it takes us to do announcements in 1. They employ progressive disclosure and keep automatic announcements to a minimum of the train number/destination and principal calling points, next stop, and (if relevant) that the restaurant or particular facilities are open. If someone needs to be told (eg) don’t put your luggage on the seats or not to play music in the quiet carriage, the train crew will set them right.
And there’s none of this “station stop” nonsense. Instead if the train stops between stations, they make an announcement to say “we are stopped on the open track/we are not calling here, please don’t try to open the doors.” There is no need to be pedantic in advance in anticipation there might be someone who’s never been on a train before and might not realise that trains sometimes stop between stations. They will learn soon enough.
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So, whilst you expect to be welcomed, you should at least consider the railway and public really need to do their upmost to reduce how much subsidy your ticket requires. If that means sitting through an announcement or two then it really isn't so bad. Turn your anger onto the grifters, not the staff.
I do not agree with this. Under what circumstance would someone determined to dodge their fare have a change of heart and think “oh no, a recorded announcement told me I could get fined, I’d better get off and buy a valid ticket”?
May I offer an alternative view? You spend a four figure sum on rail journeys. If you think about it, that is a heavily subsidised price. The cost of running the railway - ranging from maintenance, running costs, new builds, rolling stock upgrades and procurement and so much more - you can add at least one zero and probably more onto what your ticket should actually cost. But the taxpayer considers it worthwhile to subsidise your journey because of the economic value it adds by enabling your movement. It prioritises your journey over hospitals, nurses, military and more. Yet it also has to increase the rail subsidy to fund the grifters and freeloaders. Which means less public money for things that are actually valuable.
So, whilst you expect to be welcomed, you should at least consider the railway and public really need to do their upmost to reduce how much subsidy your ticket requires. If that means sitting through an announcement or two then it really isn't so bad. Turn your anger onto the grifters, not the staff.
Anyone who is intent on fare evading will do so. You can announce until you are blue in the face, it will make not a scrap of difference. The majority of passengers are fine. Why should the majority sit thro hostile and offensive announcements, when they wont work. In my experience a amiable conductor will get better results than a hostile one.
How many times have you heard a hostile announcement at the beginning of a journey, and the conductor still comes across fare evaders ? They dont work for a determined fare evader.
May I offer an alternative view? You spend a four figure sum on rail journeys. If you think about it, that is a heavily subsidised price. The cost of running the railway - ranging from maintenance, running costs, new builds, rolling stock upgrades and procurement and so much more - you can add at least one zero and probably more onto what your ticket should actually cost. But the taxpayer considers it worthwhile to subsidise your journey because of the economic value it adds by enabling your movement. It prioritises your journey over hospitals, nurses, military and more. Yet it also has to increase the rail subsidy to fund the grifters and freeloaders. Which means less public money for things that are actually valuable.
So, whilst you expect to be welcomed, you should at least consider the railway and public really need to do their upmost to reduce how much subsidy your ticket requires. If that means sitting through an announcement or two then it really isn't so bad. Turn your anger onto the grifters, not the staff.
A guard who walks the train and charges people without the proper ticket does exactly this. There is no need for sarcastic or hyperbolic announcements. Everyone thinks they should get their ticket checked but very few people think they deserve to be speculatively patronised.
A guard who walks the train and charges people without the proper ticket does exactly this. There is no need for sarcastic or hyperbolic announcements. Everyone thinks they should get their ticket checked but very few people think they deserve to be speculatively patronised.
So, whilst you expect to be welcomed, you should at least consider the railway and public really need to do their upmost to reduce how much subsidy your ticket requires. If that means sitting through an announcement or two then it really isn't so bad. Turn your anger onto the grifters, not the staff.
"An announcement or two"? Can I travel on your line please? On SWR (at least until recently), you'd have sat through three or more before leaving Waterloo, and another three or four by Clapham Junction. On metro services with frequent stops, they felt almost continuous, being played in succession after each station call.
TPE guard continually and sarcastically announcing we need to move forward from the rear carriage to alight at Sheffield. Queue everyone rushing forward and then all the doors opened in the rear coach anyway. Very strange.
TPE guard continually and sarcastically announcing we need to move forward from the rear carriage to alight at Sheffield. Queue everyone rushing forward and then all the doors opened in the rear coach anyway. Very strange.
A guard who walks the train and charges people without the proper ticket does exactly this. There is no need for sarcastic or hyperbolic announcements. Everyone thinks they should get their ticket checked but very few people think they deserve to be speculatively patronised.
This isn't a complete solution. First, there are many types of grifter and some will be deterred by an announcement and either moving to the right part of the train, alight (if the announcement is made before departure) or buy a ticket. Second, guards can be busy or lazy and might not get through the whole train in a timely manner to do appropriate ticket checks, so at least an announcement puts grifters on edge even if they are not dealt with. Third, an announcement like the on outlined (come to Coach B) cuts an argument from the grifter that they were waiting for the guard to come around.
How many trains have you worked ? You really dont seem to have any idea. If you really think an announcement will deter a fare evader youre very naive. Ive been on the railway many years, and come across hundreds of fare evaders directly or indirectly. You really seem to have no idea. There is no place for hostile and threatening announcements
This isn't a complete solution. First, there are many types of grifter and some will be deterred by an announcement and either moving to the right part of the train, alight (if the announcement is made before departure) or buy a ticket. Second, guards can be busy or lazy and might not get through the whole train in a timely manner to do appropriate ticket checks, so at least an announcement puts grifters on edge even if they are not dealt with. Third, an announcement like the on outlined (come to Coach B) cuts an argument from the grifter that they were waiting for the guard to come around.
This is really divorced from the reality of how things actually work on the ground. If it was that easy, everyone would be as sarcastic and passive aggressive as the guard in this example. But aside from it not being conducive to a pleasant travelling atmosphere, it's also just unnecessary to word any announcement like this (and to make things up like "business train"). It's Grand Central. The guard will absolutely be moving through the train because they have a buy on board policy.
A 2xClass 185 formation really has to be ‘tucked’ between two signals at the Platform 1B. I have seen such trains stop just slightly ‘short’ and the Guard then having to restrict door opening in the rear set. The same has to happen at Meadowhall and some other stations towards Cleethorpes anyway.
"An announcement or two"? Can I travel on your line please? On SWR (at least until recently), you'd have sat through three or more before leaving Waterloo, and another three or four by Clapham Junction. On metro services with frequent stops, they felt almost continuous, being played in succession after each station call.
And if you're unlucky enough to have boarded an SWR service at Clapham Junction you'll have had the warm-up act which is the brain numbingly inane drivel over the PA that accompanies the train's arrival.
The pointless announcements at Clapham Junction (slipperyness, scooters, vaping, rugby, delays on another TOC that are of no consequence, etc) frequently interrupt the train's stopping pattern announcement which, as a passenger, is all I actually want to know.
Of course not. And on reflection there is no difference between supermarket barriers and ticket barriers, but my view of the former is coloured by my and my Mum's first experience of the former, where she put her receipt in her bag and all the shopping on top, only to have to empty the bag in order to leave the shop!
A guard who walks the train and charges people without the proper ticket does exactly this. There is no need for sarcastic or hyperbolic announcements.
A polite pre-departure announcement is surely helpful to passengers though, if it means those mistakenly (or otherwise) on board leave the train and avoid being punished for their error.
A polite pre-departure announcement is surely helpful to passengers though, if it means those mistakenly (or otherwise) on board leave the train and avoid being punished for their error.
A polite pre-departure announcement is surely helpful to passengers though, if it means those mistakenly (or otherwise) on board leave the train and avoid being punished for their error.
Case in point - at York last week on an LNER Kings Cross service. A GC train had been cancelled and acceptance had been arranged on one LNER service - the one behind ours. Conductor making it really clear that GC tickets would not be accepted and that pax should detrain and cross the bridge to P3. You obviously can't legislate for stupidity but they made it as clear as they could, I thought it was well done.
