Scottish buses to be brought into public control

[GusB]

I'm just watching John Swinney's SNP conference speech and he has announced that Scotland's buses are to brought back into public control.

Swinney vows to bring Scotland’s bus network back into public control by 2031

John Swinney used his SNP conference speech to pledge bus franchising across Scotland by 2031, a new misogyny criminal offence before next summer, and a £30 million fund to tackle racism in communities.

www.heraldscotland.com

John Swinney has promised to bring Scotland's bus network back into public control by the end of this parliament.

The vow was among a number of announcements made during his speech to the SNP conference in Aberdeen.

The First Minister also pledged to make misogyny-based harassment and abuse a specific criminal offence before next summer.
On buses, he announced that bus fares in Aberdeen and the North East will be capped at £2 from April, extending the scheme already running in the Highlands and Islands and the West of Scotland.
"But friends, cheaper bus travel is only one part of the story," he added. "We need more buses and we need more frequent buses.
"It's good for commuters and it's good for the climate.
"I can therefore announce today that by the end of this parliament, through franchising and regulation, the SNP will bring the bus network back into public control."

 

[Spsf3232]

I'm just watching John Swinney's SNP conference speech and he has announced that Scotland's buses are to brought back into public control.

Swinney vows to bring Scotland’s bus network back into public control by 2031

John Swinney used his SNP conference speech to pledge bus franchising across Scotland by 2031, a new misogyny criminal offence before next summer, and a £30 million fund to tackle racism in communities.

www.heraldscotland.com

Wouldn't listen to anything he says he's clueless

 

[Buzby]

Wouldn't listen to anything he says he's clueless

So you don’t like the idea then?

 

[Andyh82]

Probably needs to be a lot more detail if he is suggesting the entire bus network is to the franchised?

 

[Volvodart]

Probably needs to be a lot more detail if he is suggesting the entire bus network is to the franchised?

It is only Glasgow area that has done any work on franchising and with the current legislation it will be the end of this parliament before it will get franchising if it decides to go that route. They will need to change the legislation for the rest of Scotland to get very far by the end of the Parliament.

 

[JKP]

Probably needs to be a lot more detail if he is suggesting the entire bus network is to the franchised?

Correct. The devil will be in the detail. I can see a number of local authorities not being happy unless increased funding is made available to them. We have recently seen the loss of service in Dumfries and Galloway which was not the fault of Stagecoach. The Scottish Borders has very little in the way of evening service as the Council will not pay for it. Falkirk and West Lothian are not exactly flush with money for bus services either.

 

[overthewater]

I doubt John Swinney will be here in 2 years let alone the end of the parliament, so I have to wonder if the next FM will want to push this so hard?

 

[DunsBus]

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[tbtc]

. Potentially very good news (on paper)
. 2031 sounds ridiculously soon to achieve all of this - some areas could potentially be franchised fairly soon (Dumfries area pretty much all seems to be council organised, Glasgow has started the ball rolling there, but lots of regions will be effectively starting from scratch)
. Great news if you live somewhere like Monklands with a disjointed network/ lots of operators, meaning no simple "town/city" options for weekly tickets etc, which currently makes bus travel quite unattractive to daily travellers at that stage in live where they have to pay their own fares - there must be some relatively simple improvements that coordination could bring there
. Great news in theory for coordination with ScotRail services on routes like Thurso - but if everything is ultimately controlled by Hollyrood then that might mean that they cut services from bus routes they feel compete too much with their trains (Glasgow - Fort William etc)... Or maybe they use the cheaper costs of running buses to allow them to thin out the cost of running so many trains to Stranraer? . There's certainly a lot of opportunities to coordinate local bus services around rural trains, which may make some rail (re) openings look a lot more attractive (e.g.a train to Ellon might not serve many people but if you know you can rearrange Peterhead/ Fraserburgh buses to meet each train then things may seem more feasible
. Potentially bad news in somewhere like Edinburgh that will see no reason to risk the destabilising (they essentially have all of the benefits of a publicly supported bus network already)
. So many things remain to be seen (this sounds like a nice thing to announce at Conference but we all know Swinney won't be FM in 2031), especially the impacts on struggling local councils
. Since "buses" seems to include what might be classed as "coaches" south of the border, this is presumably rather worrying news for Ember
. Similarly, the era of ultra-frequent coach services will probably come to an end, maybe in years to come we'll talk of the Golden Era of a dozen coaches a day from Glasgow to Fort William/ around four an hour from Dundee to Edinburgh/ better than every ten minutes from Edinburgh Airport to Glasgow etc
. With Stagecoach potentially losing their Perth area network and First theirs in Aberdeen, will the two long established businesses move their HQs? They certainly might be a bit less sentimental about hanging around
. Place your bets now on how many flags/ Gaelic (presumably with this being an SNP plan, they'll want a national identity rather than the regional schemes the SBG had the last time the bus network was Public Sector. But, who knows)

 

[overthewater]

How would this affect the Ember network?

 

[Djgr]

Correct. The devil will be in the detail. I can see a number of local authorities not being happy unless increased funding is made available to them. We have recently seen the loss of service in Dumfries and Galloway which was not the fault of Stagecoach. The Scottish Borders has very little in the way of evening service as the Council will not pay for it. Falkirk and West Lothian are not exactly flush with money for bus services either.

Perhaps a hybrid scheme with local authority bus franchises in major urban areas and a national scheme to mop up everywhere else?

Also, as the major English areas convert over the next few years, there will be increased franchise experience to put into play.

 

[Megafuss]

Rhetorical point.. I wonder if that means the Lothian network will be up for grabs as well. After all, they are deregulated!

 

[Volvodart]

Perhaps a hybrid scheme with local authority bus franchises in major urban areas and a national scheme to mop up everywhere else?

Also, as the major English areas convert over the next few years, there will be increased franchise experience to put into play.

The Councils themselves are going to be facing reform too, with 6 to 10 regional authorities being responsible for transport.

 

[JonathanH]

that might mean that they cut services from bus routes they feel compete too much with their trains (Glasgow - Fort William etc)...

No one ever seems to acknowledge that buses which run on the same 'route' as a train also call at intermediate stops and serve slightly different places. Yes, there is 'competition' but there is also ways in which they compliment each other.

 

[YorkRailFan]

Its an interesting proposal symbolically and ideologically with Scotland being home to Stagecoach and FirstGroup.

 

[oldman]

Manchester has done it and viewed from 150 miles away it looks good, so we are going to do it. Now we have to decide how - probably with no money.

 

[buslad1988]

Swinney has already set himself up for failure by setting a target date so soon!

Personally I think he’s bitten off more than he can chew with this one… there’s already niggly issues and people unhappy with how the railways are doing nationalised; so I can’t see folk in places like Edinburgh being too keen to get them so involved in running the buses aswell. Most people wouldn’t trust the government to run a bath!

This will keep the greens happy however that’s about it, and you can see McGills putting up a fight.

And as per usual with these things, where’s the money coming from?! These kind of announcements are usually made to take attention away from other failings such as drugs deaths, the economy etc.

 

[CMBS]

Swinney has already set himself up for failure by setting a target date so soon!

Personally I think he’s bitten off more than he can chew with this one… there’s already niggly issues and people unhappy with how the railways are doing nationalised; so I can’t see folk in places like Edinburgh being too keen to get them so involved in running the buses aswell. Most people wouldn’t trust the government to run a bath!

This will keep the greens happy however that’s about it, and you can see McGills putting up a fight.

And as per usual with these things, where’s the money coming from?! These kind of announcements are usually made to take attention away from other failings such as drugs deaths, the economy etc.

They need to justify short termism before their next rota of 10 leaders in 2 years.

 

[GusB]

Swinney has already set himself up for failure by setting a target date so soon!

Personally I think he’s bitten off more than he can chew with this one… there’s already niggly issues and people unhappy with how the railways are doing nationalised; so I can’t see folk in places like Edinburgh being too keen to get them so involved in running the buses aswell. Most people wouldn’t trust the government to run a bath!

This will keep the greens happy however that’s about it, and you can see McGills putting up a fight.

And as per usual with these things, where’s the money coming from?! These kind of announcements are usually made to take attention away from other failings such as drugs deaths, the economy etc.

As Lothian is already a local authority owned arms-length company, I doubt the situation will change there. I'm not sure how Edinburgh folk will be unhappy with the status quo!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 20:00 ==

They need to justify short termism before their next rota of 10 leaders in 2 years.

Which party in Scotland does this apply to?

 

[CMBS]

Which party in Scotland does this apply to?

All of the major parties, including the SNP

 

[KHCT]

So the SNP think they can bring all of Scotland's buses under public control in record breaking time at the same time as the Scottish Government is facing up to a £700m budget cut. Given that these are the same people that have taken over a decade to not get a couple of ferries built and delivered, I'll believe it when I see it happen.

 

[Aaron_TTL]

Im up for anything that kills the Stagecoach monopoloy charging nearly £7 for a 10 minute journey in Fife.

 

[Djgr]

Im up for anything that kills the Stagecoach monopoloy charging nearly £7 for a 10 minute journey in Fife.

My son was certainly surprised by the cost of the Leuchars to St Andrews run.

 

[Aaron_TTL]

My son was certainly surprised by the cost of the Leuchars to St Andrews run.

It’s honestly daylight robbery

I paid the same price for a first class Leuchars to Edinburgh LNER ticket and got a meal and a beer

 

[EMU303]

Manchester has done it and viewed from 150 miles away it looks good, so we are going to do it. Now we have to decide how - probably with no money.

What is the measure of success for franchising? Asking because I haven’t seen a target(s).
According to the latest edition of Buses magazine, Manchester cost £229m net last year with growth of passenger numbers around 2%.Presumably there are targets for further growth, although there seems to be a fear that successful bidders bid low to win the work and eliminate small operators and future bids will be much higher.
Without a serious plan to tackle congestion in many places I’m unconvinced people are going to flock back to using buses in the cities.

As an aside, I occasionally drive the M80 and today I saw two broken down First double deckers in separate locations in a single journey. Without exaggeration I have lost count of the number of times I have seen this in recent months (I’m talking well in double figures) and I’m only on that road about once every 7-10 days. It is truly astounding to see such apparent neglect.

 

[Mrwerdna1]

I seem to detect a lot of cynicism in this thread, or possibly realism, depending on which way you look at it. Personally, I too think 2031 is an ambitious target, but nonetheless far from impossible. The most complex networks to franchise, in my view, i.e. Greater Glasgow and Lothian, both have distinct advantages that facilitate franchising within the next five years. SPT was already moving forward with franchising, which was set to be rolled out by roughly 2030/2031, and has thus already done a lot of the preparatory work. Lothian Buses operates as an arm’s-length public operator as things stand, and yes, there are some competing bus operators on select services, but only a few. I could imagine a hybrid model where Lothian continue to run all their regular services whilst those routes currently operated by other operators, are also awarded directly to Lothian, under the framework/bill to be brought forward in parliament. Then, over time, all services, including those currently operated by Lothian, are put out to competitive tender. Lothian, I believe, could continue to operate and bid for contracts and may indeed win them, if they are sufficiently clever. See AarBus in Aarhus, Denmark, for reference. Quite a fascinating success story in its own right.

Franchising bus services in rural Scotland ought, in theory, to be more straightforward, albeit certainly not a doddle. Again, one may choose to adopt a direct-award model for the transition phase, Dundee, Perth, Aberdeen and Inverness may prove to be marginally more complex, but unlike Glasgow, one operator tends to dominate in each respective urban area, unless I'm very much mistaken. Therefore, once again, direct awards may prove to be an effective tool to bring the rollout date forward.

 

[GusB]

I seem to detect a lot of cynicism in this thread, or possibly realism, depending on which way you look at it.

Is there cynicism? I hadn't noticed!

It is to be expected whenever any SNP-led initiative is discussed on the forum, along with the usual wails of "how is it going to be paid for because they've nae money?"

Personally, I too think 2031 is an ambitious target, but nonetheless far from impossible. The most complex networks to franchise, in my view, i.e. Greater Glasgow and Lothian, both have distinct advantages that facilitate franchising within the next five years. SPT was already moving forward with franchising, which was set to be rolled out by roughly 2030/2031, and has thus already done a lot of the preparatory work. Lothian Buses operates as an arm’s-length public operator as things stand, and yes, there are some competing bus operators on select services, but only a few. I could imagine a hybrid model where Lothian continue to run all their regular services whilst those routes currently operated by other operators, are also awarded directly to Lothian, under the framework/bill to be brought forward in parliament. Then, over time, all services, including those currently operated by Lothian, are put out to competitive tender. Lothian, I believe, could continue to operate and bid for contracts and may indeed win them, if they are sufficiently clever. See AarBus in Aarhus, Denmark, for reference. Quite a fascinating success story in its own right.

It does seem a bit ambitious to have this all in place by 2031, but considering that the legislation to allow this was enacted several years ago, I would assume that there has been some background work going on in the meantime.

Franchising bus services in rural Scotland ought, in theory, to be more straightforward, albeit certainly not a doddle. Again, one may choose to adopt a direct-award model for the transition phase, Dundee, Perth, Aberdeen and Inverness may prove to be marginally more complex, but unlike Glasgow, one operator tends to dominate in each respective urban area, unless I'm very much mistaken. Therefore, once again, direct awards may prove to be an effective tool to bring the rollout date forward.

Franchising isn't the only option, though. Local authority operation is one, along with BSIPs. In my area, Moray, most bus services are fairly self-contained and Moray Council already runs several; it wouldn't be that much of a stretch to bring the rest in. There are routes that venture further afield, such as the Stagecoach 10, M96 and 35 so there would have to be some arrangement for those, but it's not impossible to deal with. There's also the Ember route between Aberdeen and Inverness.

Transport (Scotland) Act 2019 and Bus Services | Transport Scotland

www.transport.gov.scot

The 2019 Act allows local transport authorities to run their own bus services; franchise bus services in their areas; or enter into Bus Services Improvement Partnerships (BSIPs) with bus operators within their areas. The Act also introduces new regulations covering the way in which bus operators must provide information to local authorities when they plan to reduce or withdraw the services they provide.

How this all ties in with the proposed local government reform, I'm not entirely sure. The idea is to replace the existing unitary authorities with regional authorities and community authorities:

Public sector reform: proposal

Scottish Government proposal for reform of local governance

www.gov.scot

The Government’s opening proposition for discussion is that our current local government arrangements are replaced with a smaller number (6 to 10) of regional authorities focussing on strategic decision-making, with a substantial number (120-160) of community authorities focused on local decision-making. While there may be a general model in most cases, recognising their unique status and needs, our proposition is that this would sit alongside bespoke solutions for island communities.

I assume that transport functions would be handled by the regional bodies rather than the community authorities, in the same manner that transport matters were the responsibility of the now-defunct Regional Councils that were abolished in the 1996 re-organisation.

All of the major parties, including the SNP

Sorry, but I'm still none the wiser. You talk about 10 leaders in 2 years across all parties, yet the SNP has only had one leader in that time. The other party leaders are irrelevant because they're not in government!