Is it a good idea to release forward facing CCTV footage of incidents?

[Straus]

Seems like it was posted on the NR logs which are accessible for thousands of people in the industry. This often happens, but is rarely leaked. They won't find out who it was who's shared it from downloading those NR logs unfortunately. But as another poster said, this will just lead to the information on those logs getting restricted and locked down further, as simply, people are idiots who can't be trusted.

mods note - split from this thread:

710112 collision with Buffers at Liverpool Street Station (15/10/2026)

I've just seen some pictures sent to me showing LO 710112 has collided with the buffer stops and has derailed, at least one bogie on front carriage and all of the second carriage. Platform 1/2 are obviously blocked. I won't share pictures as unsure where they have come from.

www.railforums.co.uk

That'd be a first for me - I've not seen FFV uploaded to the logs before.

 

[whoosh]

Well now you know why drivers and pilots are so against in cab/cockpit cameras. They don't want to be leaked all over the internet.

 

[AlterEgo]

That'd be a first for me - I've not seen FFV uploaded to the logs before.

Me either. I am surprised that this is the case.

 

[develop331]

If you were the driver involved, would you want the world judging you for what much of the public has jumped to conclusions to be "incompetence"?

 

[sad1e]

I have removed the cab video from my original post , I was under the impression it was openly available from the person who sent it to me.

 

[D365]

I have removed the cab video from my original post , I was under the impression it was openly available from the person who sent it to me.

A sensible decision on your part. It’s best to err on the side of caution when it comes to CCTV footage in particular (this is advice for all).

 

[jezmonite]

If you were the driver involved, would you want the world judging you for what much of the public has jumped to conclusions to be "incompetence"?

Probably shouldn’t crash then, if you don’t want people judging you for crashing. It’s amazing how protective the rail industry is - of course it’s in the public interest to know how and why a rail accident happens, it’s the public that take the trains, it’s their lives at risk too. And if a video has been deemed ok to share with thousands of people, it’s clearly not that sensitive, or it really shouldn’t have been shared on that list, and people lamenting that things leaking from that list will cause the list to have fewer things shared in the future need to realise that they are themselves just being nosy Parker’s like the rest of us. Anyone with a shred of knowledge about information security knows that if something is worth keeping secret, you limit it to need to know basis only, you don’t post it to 1000 people.

 

[66701GBRF]

Probably shouldn’t crash then, if you don’t want people judging you for crashing. It’s amazing how protective the rail industry is - of course it’s in the public interest to know how and why a rail accident happens, it’s the public that take the trains, it’s their lives at risk too. And if a video has been deemed ok to share with thousands of people, it’s clearly not that sensitive, or it really shouldn’t have been shared on that list, and people lamenting that things leaking from that list will cause the list to have fewer things shared in the future need to realise that they are themselves just being nosy Parker’s like the rest of us. Anyone with a shred of knowledge about information security knows that if something is worth keeping secret, you limit it to need to know basis only, you don’t post it to 1000 people.

Can we come to your place of work, film you and plaster it over social media without any context if somethings goes wrong? Saying "probably shouldn't crash then" clearly shows you think it's driver error when for all you know it could be a unit or track defect.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Probably shouldn’t crash then, if you don’t want people judging you for crashing.

There you go, jumping to conclusions. Who says it was the driver's fault? Could have been out of his/her control - faulty brakes for example.

 

[AlterEgo]

Probably shouldn’t crash then, if you don’t want people judging you for crashing. It’s amazing how protective the rail industry is - of course it’s in the public interest to know how and why a rail accident happens, it’s the public that take the trains, it’s their lives at risk too.

This is exactly why it's bad for privileged information to leak widely. For a start the FFCCTV does not show how or why the accident has happened, and your own post demonstrates the sort of jump to conclusions uninformed spectators can make.

 

[station_road]

Probably shouldn’t crash then, if you don’t want people judging you for crashing. It’s amazing how protective the rail industry is - of course it’s in the public interest to know how and why a rail accident happens, it’s the public that take the trains, it’s their lives at risk too. And if a video has been deemed ok to share with thousands of people, it’s clearly not that sensitive, or it really shouldn’t have been shared on that list, and people lamenting that things leaking from that list will cause the list to have fewer things shared in the future need to realise that they are themselves just being nosy Parker’s like the rest of us. Anyone with a shred of knowledge about information security knows that if something is worth keeping secret, you limit it to need to know basis only, you don’t post it to 1000 people.

The public interest will be served by the RAIB report into the incident, which will be made public and report all the facts along with recommendations.

 

[develop331]

Probably shouldn’t crash then, if you don’t want people judging you for crashing. It’s amazing how protective the rail industry is - of course it’s in the public interest to know how and why a rail accident happens, it’s the public that take the trains, it’s their lives at risk too. And if a video has been deemed ok to share with thousands of people, it’s clearly not that sensitive, or it really shouldn’t have been shared on that list, and people lamenting that things leaking from that list will cause the list to have fewer things shared in the future need to realise that they are themselves just being nosy Parker’s like the rest of us. Anyone with a shred of knowledge about information security knows that if something is worth keeping secret, you limit it to need to know basis only, you don’t post it to 1000 people.

What if the driver had a major medical incident on the approach to the station rendering them incapable to stop the train? What if the brakes had failed? What if the adhesion was low so the train couldn't stop in time?

It's like looking at a video of a plane crashing and instantly going "ah yes, those pilots are idiots" instead of allowing the experts to analyse the situation.

 

[D1537]

What if the driver had a major medical incident on the approach to the station rendering them incapable to stop the train? What if the brakes had failed? What if the adhesion was low so the train couldn't stop in time?

From what I've seen one of those three things is exactly what is being suggested, which is why assuming things is dangerous.

 

[Falcon1200]

That'd be a first for me - I've not seen FFV uploaded to the logs before.

Me either. I am surprised that this is the case.

It's a while since I was responsible for CCIL inputs (and monitoring) but I would never have uploaded FFV to it, and if I had seen it there I would have deleted it. Those who require access to the footage will have it by other means.

 

[Guard86]

I don't post often in here, but this thread has really grinded me, and I will share my opinion on it.

I've seen images and videos uploaded into the files section of CCIL, but NOT when there's an investigation to be had. Frankly, it's P*****s me off that fellow colleagues feel the need to divulge this information to their pals for internet points and as others have said, the more it happens the more the logs are restricted which causes a massive headache to those who need to add entries into it because this event can have an affect somewhere else in another region and that can be attributed to that entry, and have to seek permission. It's just so detrimental to the whole proccess and slows things down.

I am not against an incident and/or investigation report being put out into the public domain AFTER a full and thorough investigation has been completed.
No one who posts these things on the internet is giving any second consideration to the person involved. What if a family member sees it before they are even informed? It's not about hiding the truth from anyone, but protecting the victims in any scenario, and this absolute obsession from some over entitled enthusiasts who think they know all and must share information given to them asap. 40 years of working in the railway, I would be grateful if some people would mind their own business and await official reports if and when they are released, and for colleagues, please have a long hard think about your actions and their potential outcomes when you are privvy to information.
Thanks for allowing me my opinion on this thread. G

 

[20atthemagnet]

Forward facing on the train type in question which I used to sign isn’t as locked as people think. 710s have a cloud based system which you can access almost instantly so long as you have the right credentials and know when/where happened.

Long gone are days where it was locked down and needed multiple layers to access and days to process.

I had a person fall down the gap once the footage was at my depot within a couple of minutes. Ive seen it, the footage also wasn’t original, somebody filmed it from a screen.

So you've narrowed it down to probably about half of the entire Alstom workforce in the country as well as relevant people with authorisation at FRL to view it. It's in bad taste, but they aren't finding out who did that. Not a chance in hell. It’s about 900th hand at this point.

 

[David Burrows]

I don't post often in here, but this thread has really grinded me, and I will share my opinion on it.

I've seen images and videos uploaded into the files section of CCIL, but NOT when there's an investigation to be had. Frankly, it's P*****s me off that fellow colleagues feel the need to divulge this information to their pals for internet points and as others have said, the more it happens the more the logs are restricted which causes a massive headache to those who need to add entries into it because this event can have an affect somewhere else in another region and that can be attributed to that entry, and have to seek permission. It's just so detrimental to the whole proccess and slows things down.

I am not against an incident and/or investigation report being put out into the public domain AFTER a full and thorough investigation has been completed.
No one who posts these things on the internet is giving any second consideration to the person involved. What if a family member sees it before they are even informed? It's not about hiding the truth from anyone, but protecting the victims in any scenario, and this absolute obsession from some over entitled enthusiasts who think they know all and must share information given to them asap. 40 years of working in the railway, I would be grateful if some people would mind their own business and await official reports if and when they are released, and for colleagues, please have a long hard think about your actions and their potential outcomes when you are privvy to information.
Thanks for allowing me my opinion on this thread. G

Well said. Too many people think they must put out every detail which they know (or if they don't know, then guess what might be the cause) and infer that that is the reason. Those who need to deal with the incident and HAVE to log such things on i strictly internal basis should be able to do their work without all the information being put on this and other forums by people not considering the possible consequences of their actions.

 

[PudseyBearHST]

I don't post often in here, but this thread has really grinded me, and I will share my opinion on it.

I've seen images and videos uploaded into the files section of CCIL, but NOT when there's an investigation to be had. Frankly, it's P*****s me off that fellow colleagues feel the need to divulge this information to their pals for internet points and as others have said, the more it happens the more the logs are restricted which causes a massive headache to those who need to add entries into it because this event can have an affect somewhere else in another region and that can be attributed to that entry, and have to seek permission. It's just so detrimental to the whole proccess and slows things down.

I am not against an incident and/or investigation report being put out into the public domain AFTER a full and thorough investigation has been completed.
No one who posts these things on the internet is giving any second consideration to the person involved. What if a family member sees it before they are even informed? It's not about hiding the truth from anyone, but protecting the victims in any scenario, and this absolute obsession from some over entitled enthusiasts who think they know all and must share information given to them asap. 40 years of working in the railway, I would be grateful if some people would mind their own business and await official reports if and when they are released, and for colleagues, please have a long hard think about your actions and their potential outcomes when you are privvy to information.
Thanks for allowing me my opinion on this thread. G

It’s unfortunate. I remember when the fatalities happened at Margam on the Great Western, messages were circulating to staff from TOCs even as far as up north about the name of the driver and where he was based (not that it was his fault of course)

 

[bramling]

Can we come to your place of work, film you and plaster it over social media without any context if somethings goes wrong? Saying "probably shouldn't crash then" clearly shows you think it's driver error when for all you know it could be a unit or track defect.

I’m in two minds on this. It’s a public service, paid for and used by the public, so there is legitimate interest in what has happened. I’m not overly comfortable with living in some secretive society where news is suppressed, which is kind of the implication of all this.

 

[dk1]

I’m in two minds on this. It’s a public service, paid for and used by the public, so there is legitimate interest in what has happened. I’m not overly comfortable with living in some secretive society where news is suppressed.

Just wait for the initial inquiry from professionals to release any information relevant to the general public. Why this seemingly desperation to know everything immediately?

 

[bramling]

Just wait for the initial inquiry from professionals to release any information relevant to the general public. Why this seemingly desperation to know everything immediately?

Human nature?

Don’t anyone tell me that these sort of incidents don’t attract discussion in railway mess rooms.

Normally when someone has a SPAD or something the whole mess room seems to know about it within minutes.

 

[dk1]

Human nature?

Don’t anyone tell me that these sort of incidents don’t attract discussion in railway mess rooms.

Normally when someone has a SPAD or something the whole mess room seems to know about it within minutes.

Of course as it’s one of your colleagues and career. I just don’t get why the public need to know until the full facts have emerged.

 

[rick pike]

The video is still on Instagram, for some reason it popped up on my feed from a "der eisenbahner" guy. Never heard of him before.
Yeah I agree it's a naughty that it has been leaked in the first place.

 

[Russel]

The video is still on Instagram, for some reason it popped up on my feed from a "der eisenbahner" guy. Never heard of him before.
Yeah I agree it's a naughty that it has been leaked in the first place.

I've just seen that on Instagram myself.

One question, are front facing cameras really that poor quality, or is it just due to loss of resolution each time the video has been downloaded and shared?

Looks like someone has smeared a layer of vaseline over the lens.

 

[Benjwri]

I've just seen that on Instagram myself.

One question, are front facing cameras really that poor quality, or is it just due to loss of resolution each time the video has been downloaded and shared?

Looks like someone has smeared a layer of vaseline over the lens.

There will be a loss of quality given it's fairly clearly a recording of a monitor displaying the video.

 

[Russel]

There will be a loss of quality given it's fairly clearly a recording of a monitor displaying the video.

Was it? Couldn't really tell from the small resolution.

 

[dk1]

Was it? Couldn't really tell from the small resolution.

Oh it was absolutely awful quality. Definitely not original FFC.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Was it? Couldn't really tell from the small resolution.

The video has a ruler visible at the bottom of the frame that's presumably just on the desk the monitor is on, and there's a lot of effects common from using a camera to try and record a screen.
I'd also guess it's compressed quite a bit, so it may have been recorded then sent through WhatsApp or something else that automatically compresses shared content which then makes the screen look even worse.

 

[dk1]

The video has a ruler visible at the bottom of the frame that's presumably just on the desk the monitor is on, and there's a lot of effects common from using a camera to try and record a screen.
I'd also guess it's compressed quite a bit, so it may have been recorded then sent through WhatsApp or something else that automatically compresses shared content which then makes the screen look even worse.

Reminded me of one of those crap pirate videos from back in the day. How anybody watched those just to save a few quid still evades me even now,

 

[norbitonflyer]

Not sure what’s caused it but you can see the reflection of the hazards flashing before the train has even reached the tpws grids.

I haven't seen the video, but couldn't this just be the flashing effect you often see on videos of modern trains due to the flicker rate of the headlights going in and out of sync with the frame rate of the camera?