Thameslink: "formed of" Vs "which has"

[AlterEgo]

You said that we live in a less literate society. I do not think we should just accept that, but rather need to reset a culture of treating people as reasonably intelligent adults, not dumb down.

Might I gently make the point that the call is coming from inside the house here.

 

[Harpo]

Alight is a bit obscure, but "get off" is just a bit informal. Board and leave would be understood by basically everyone without using childlike language.

For me, TfW wins the prize for bad English in its recorded announcements telling request stop passengers that they need to inform the conductor ‘to allow them to alight’.

 

[Deepgreen]

Privatisation brought about a huge decline in literacy on the railway, mostly because different TOCs seemed to want to be different for the sake of it, and/or invented new terms for perfectly good existing ones - the classic 'calling points' instead of 'stations' was one that particularly grated with me, along with "we are now arriving INTO xxx" rather than 'at'! The railway was once a bastion of good English, along with the BBC. Both have now crumbled badly.

 

[Tester]

Privatisation brought about a huge decline in literacy on the railway, mostly because different TOCs seemed to want to be different for the sake of it, and/or invented new terms for perfectly good existing ones - the classic 'calling points' instead of 'stations' was one that particularly grated with me, along with "we are now arriving INTO xxx" rather than 'at'! The railway was once a bastion of good English, along with the BBC. Both have now crumbled badly.

I'm guessing that you dislike "We are now on the final approach into xxx" even more

 

[Jimini]

I'm guessing that you dislike "We are now on the final approach into xxx" even more

Same here -- the "into" thing really grinds my gears!

 

[AlterEgo]

Privatisation brought about a huge decline in literacy on the railway, mostly because different TOCs seemed to want to be different for the sake of it, and/or invented new terms for perfectly good existing ones - the classic 'calling points' instead of 'stations' was one that particularly grated with me, along with "we are now arriving INTO xxx" rather than 'at'! The railway was once a bastion of good English, along with the BBC. Both have now crumbled badly.

Calling points and "principal stations" (where they list all of them) are both so unnecessary. Nothing wrong with stops or stations.

 

[TUC]

Privatisation brought about a huge decline in literacy on the railway, mostly because different TOCs seemed to want to be different for the sake of it, and/or invented new terms for perfectly good existing ones - the classic 'calling points' instead of 'stations' was one that particularly grated with me, along with "we are now arriving INTO xxx" rather than 'at'! The railway was once a bastion of good English, along with the BBC. Both have now crumbled badly.

Not sure this is something that can be blamed on privatisation, more a general decline in literacy and attention to detail.

 

[coppercapped]

For me, TfW wins the prize for bad English in its recorded announcements telling request stop passengers that they need to inform the conductor ‘to allow them to alight’.

Cut them some slack, I thought English was their second language...

 

[TUC]

Cut them some slack, I thought English was their second language...

Knowing what the phrase is in Welsh that they use would be fascinating in itself…

 

[GordonT]

Nothing wrong with stops or stations.

In some parts of the network passengers are regaled with both. "The next station stop will be ....".

 

[Lampshade]

I have always known it as "formed of X coaches", though I did a fair bit of rail travel last week and heard "which has" for the first time, particularly in Southeastern land.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In some parts of the network passengers are regaled with both. "The next station stop wil be ....".

That came up because trains sometimes go through stations without stopping and sometimes stop outside of stations.

 

[GordonT]

I have always known it as "formed of X coaches", though I did a fair bit of rail travel last week and heard "which has" for the first time, particularly in Southeastern land.

I wonder if an unintended consequence of ditching time-honoured cadences might be that the masses of folk who have become so used to them will be less likely to be thus prompted to tune into the details which follow, even where they have a particular interest in the information.

 

[TUC]

That came up because trains sometimes go through stations without stopping and sometimes stop outside of stations.

Again, there needs to be a principle of not helping literalists. We know that it means the next station that the service is scheduled to stop at.

Literalists just add verbiage which make announcements longer and confusing for everyone else.

 

[AlterEgo]

That came up because trains sometimes go through stations without stopping and sometimes stop outside of stations.

I don't think that's helping anyone. But even so, "stop" is perfectly fine.

 

[Cdd89]

I noticed that the TTS in Heathrow Terminal 5 uses the phrase: "This transit ends here. Please leave the vehicle". This is a situation where it really matters that people leave the transit, as otherwise they risk missing their flight. I suspect they considered "This service terminates at this station, please alight the carriage", but plain english won out, luckily for EFL-speaking transit passengers.

I've also noticed this sort of language (e.g. "the terminal station", "disembark here") more often on the english announcements in non-english-speaking countries. I suspect this is actually becuse such those writing announcements in such countries are less familiar with which terms are best understood by most English speakers, and therefore more likely to use railway specific language.

 

[renegademaster]

Surely you can't board a service but you can board a train which provides a service!

I'm guessing it comes from slam door says when you could board trains that where out of service as nothing was physically stopping you.


"Station Stop" is another pre CDL hangover I think, along with the occasional DO NOT ALIGHT HERE boards everywhere

 

[BuhSnarf]

I noticed that the TTS in Heathrow Terminal 5 uses the phrase: "This transit ends here. Please leave the vehicle". This is a situation where it really matters that people leave the transit, as otherwise they risk missing their flight. I suspect they considered "This service terminates at this station, please alight the carriage", but plain english won out, luckily for EFL-speaking transit passengers.

I've also noticed this sort of language (e.g. "the terminal station", "disembark here") more often on the english announcements in non-english-speaking countries. I suspect this is actually becuse such those writing announcements in such countries are less familiar with which terms are best understood by most English speakers, and therefore more likely to use railway specific language.

I believe the Heathrow example is due to the number of international speakers and transit is a word more recognisable for those who only speak a little English.

 

[Harpo]

Knowing what the phrase is in Welsh that they use would be fascinating in itself…

I did wonder if ‘to allow them to alight’ came about by being written in Welsh first and translated to English afterwards?

 

[Rescars]

I did wonder if ‘to allow them to alight’ came about by being written in Welsh first and translated to English afterwards?

Almost harks back to the era when smoking was permitted!