Why did diesel trains run between London, East Croydon and Horsham in the 80s?

[johncrossley]

I just saw a YouTube video showing a diesel train leaving East Croydon going to Horsham via Gatwick in the 80s (at the start of the video).

Step back in time to East Croydon railway station during the 1980s, when British Rail ruled the rails and the railway looked, sounded and even smelled very different from today.

East Croydon was a fantastic location for watching the seemingly endless procession of Southern Region electric trains. Classes such as the 4 VEP, 4 CIG, 4 BIG and other classic slam-door units were a familiar sight across the network, while longer-distance services connected London with Brighton and destinations across Sussex and the South Coast.

(14 minute YouTube video showing trains leaving East Croydon in the 1980s)

Why was a diesel train used on this electrified line?

 

[yorkie]

I just saw a YouTube video showing a diesel train leaving East Croydon going to Horsham via Gatwick in the 80s (at the start of the video).

(14 minute YouTube video showing trains leaving East Croydon in the 1980s)

Why was a diesel train used on this electrified line?

You are mistaken; from the comments:

gppsoftware 3 weeks ago

I used to travel/change at E Croydon for many years! That DEMU was on platform 4, so the announcement is referring to the platform 3 to the right for the Horsham service - where I lived at the time. Careful with the announcements in general: they are mostly referring to another platform, not the train being filmed. The DEMU's would be working Uckfield or East Grinstead because the East Grinstead line wasn't electrified until the late 80's. The Bognor Regis train was mine for Horsham. A 455 in blue/grey! Video gives the impression that most services at E Croydon were EPB's or DEMU's when in reality BIGs and CIGs were by far the majority of services. That said, the ride in a DEMU power car from E'Croydon to L'Bridge was a very enjoyable experience: terrific noise, rumbling and diesel smell! Great video, brings back many happy memories!

The announcement was not for the train in the vide; it was for an arriving train.

The announcement for the train shown departing would have been made earlier, and cut from the video; it was probably an Uckfield service.

 

[Martin66]

You are mistaken; from the comments:

The announcement was not for the train in the vide; it was for an arriving train.

The announcement for the train shown departing would have been made earlier, and cut from the video; it was probably an Uckfield service.

Headcode 88 in 80's was Victoria - Uckfield via Hever

 

[Skiddaw]

Goodness, that takes me back. I remember those trains so well.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Splash screen/thumbnail before the vid is a bit of a faked-up mish-mash though!

 

[norbitonflyer]

Interesting that the rearmost vehicle in that train is a Hastings gauge one. Looks like in the last days of the Uckfield diesels Thumpers some odd lashups were needed.
Edit - found it. Unit 1107 ran for 14 months in 1985/86 with a class 202/203 power car (first 60037 and then 60022)
Edit again - I meant the DEMUs!

 

[WesternLancer]

Interesting that the rearmost vehicle in that train is a Hastings gauge one. Looks like in the last days of the Uckfield diesels some odd lashups were needed.
Edit - found it. Unit 1107 ran for 14 months in 1985/86 with a class 202/203 power car (first 60037 and then 60022)

The last days of the Uckfield diesels are yet to come!


Though it's very interesting to see that combination in action - thanks for flagging it.

 

[Harlequinuk]

The last days of the Uckfield diesels are yet to come!

There is a plan for the Uckfield line; currently the business case is a near 50/50 split on cost between 3rd rail or BEMU , as the charging facitilies at Uckfield would need to be very extensive for the proposed 12 car peak time service

 

[WesternLancer]

There is a plan for the Uckfield line; currently the business case is a near 50/50 split on cost between 3rd rail or BEMU , as the charging facitilies at Uckfield would need to be very extensive for the proposed 12 car peak time service

I didn't know that - thanks very much!

 

[AM9]

There is a plan for the Uckfield line; currently the business case is a near 50/50 split on cost between 3rd rail or BEMU , as the charging facitilies at Uckfield would need to be very extensive for the proposed 12 car peak time service

But there isn't much chance of any 3rd rail installation being permitted whatever the split is.

 

[WesternLancer]

But there isn't much chance of any 3rd rail installation being permitted whatever the split is.

sounds like a job for a class 769 as now not desired by GWR (assuming they can easily be converted back to 3rd rail*)... thus freeing up some 170s to cascade.

I suspect there is a list of reason why this would not be feasible.

*Edit - I see the GWR 769s retained 3rd rail functionality anyway for the proposed Oxford - Reading - Gatwick service

 

[hexagon789]

sounds like a job for a class 769 as now not desired by GWR (assuming they can easily be converted back to 3rd rail)... thus freeing up some 170s to cascade.

I suspect there is a list of reason why this would not be feasible.

'Cos the 769s are utter pants

That's sufficient reason.

 

[WesternLancer]

'Cos the 769s are utter pants

That's sufficient reason.

well there is that....

 

[hexagon789]

well there is that....

I mean on paper, yes it's logical enough but they just haven't proved themselves in practice - I'd be worried about one stuffing up the mainline.

 

[Sun Chariot]

The class 202 with the class 207 is excellent.
That video has a couple of other interesting carriages:

4m 50s, the passing Gatwick Express has an FO with yellow 1st class banding above and below the dark grey painted window-line. I don't remember seeing it back in 1985-86*.

A hybrid 3H set (class 205 DTCL, TS, with class 202 DMBS at the rear) makes its appearance at the start of this video. It's set 1107 (it's not 206 101, which had two slim-body coaches plus a class 205 driving carriage).

* Date assumption based on the presence of Hastings stock as well as InterCity livery class 73s.

 

[JonathanH]

sounds like a job for a class 769 as now not desired by GWR (assuming they can easily be converted back to 3rd rail*)... thus freeing up some 170s to cascade.

Cos the 769s are utter pants

That's sufficient reason.

Even if they weren't Mark 3 derived EMUs can't go through Oxted Tunnel in normal circumstances.

 

[marshlinker]

Interesting that the rearmost vehicle in that train is a Hastings gauge one. Looks like in the last days of the Uckfield diesels Thumpers some odd lashups were needed.
Edit - found it. Unit 1107 ran for 14 months in 1985/86 with a class 202/203 power car (first 60037 and then 60022)
Edit again - I meant the DEMUs!

The DEMUs had a long history of cross class mutations, Class 3R (Tops 206 and 206/1) https://www.bloodandcustard.com/BR-3R-Tadpole.html

 

[Siemens Staines]

Edit - found it. Unit 1107 ran for 14 months in 1985/86 with a class 202/203 power car (first 60037 and then 60022)

At the same time as this, there was a Saturdays 0603 Redhill - Portsmouth Harbour via Reading that was booked for a Selhurst DEMU. On 22.03.86 it produced 1107 so I had the slightly surreal experience of travelling in a Hastings vehicle between Reading and Basingstoke.

 

[norbitonflyer]

A hybrid 3H set (class 205 DTCL, TS, with class 202 DMBS at the rear) makes its appearance at the start of this video. It's set 1107 (it's not 206 101, which had two slim-body coaches plus a class 205 driving carriage).

Some very odd formations towrads the end, presumably trying to cobble together a workable unit from whatever still worked.

November 1980 to April 1983 "tadpole unit" 1206 had both original 6S cars (which had been reformed into unit 1004) replaced by ex 6B cars 60037 and 60702. These differed from the normal "Tadpole" vehicles in being long-frame cars, and the trailer being a TFK rather than a TSOL. Note that only the exEPB driving trailer remained of the original Tadpole unit

July 1985-April 1986 5L power car 60037 from 1206 now in Unit 1107
April 1986 - September 1987 Unit 1107 now had 6L power car 60022 (Unit renumbered 205007 in September 1986)
April 1986 to September 1987 - new unit 206101 made up of 60044/60561 (ex 5L 1037) and 60812 (ex unit 1113). This last vehicle looked similar to the DTSs in the original tadpoles but waa composite, with a lavatory.

("5L" units were originally "6B", but had their buffet cars removed in 1980)

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Guess that video must have been shot in early 1987. Oh the memories....