Audio/visual "next stop" announcements on buses

[chris53]

Most visually impaired people do not read / use brail. Most visually impaired people have some level of vision, but trying to locate a special button can be hard

Braille is declining in usage, I know quite a few people with visual impairments and only one has any understanding of Braille

 

[jon0844]

There is dignity and independence from knowing for yourself in the same way as everyone else when your stop is approachin. As for 'press for information' buttons, even if a person can locate them, are they meant to press them on multiple occasions during the journey, perhaps having to walk down the bus each time to do so, to check when their stop is near?

I am all for bus stops having signs that have a button to speak the upcoming arrivals (and they are already in use around the world, but as usual we're quite far behind and still seem to be happy to just 'trial' them at select locations as if they're not already proven technology) but having a button on a bus would be ridiculous.

For one, does the visually impaired passenger need to stay near the button? Or would there be loads of buttons on the bus? If someone needs to use it and presses more than once (as would likely be needed to keep updated on where they are and where's next), where's the dignity when another passenger (perhaps one of the selfish people on here against things to aid those with disabilities) asks them to stop pressing the button because it annoys them?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Sunday at 19:16 ==

Some of these comments do feel like those who dislike noise, but are able (even if imperfectly) to mitigate this, expecting those who have no way of mitigating being unable to see being the ones who have to compromise.

Yes, it's very sad. Far too many self-centred people in society in general unfortunately. Let's hope none of them ever find themselves in need of any of these accessible features in their later lives - or someone they care about.

 

[RJ]

As a driver the announcements really don’t bother me. I've seen the benefits of having it on my buses and it's a good thing to have.

 

[BuhSnarf]

It must be so nice that the worst thing about boarding a bus is hearing the announcements, rather than for a visually impaired user whose experience of riding the bus is that they can't as they fear they'll not get to their right destination, or that they have to take a carer with them because they can't rely on having the necessary next stop information provided.

I would suggest anyone who is having problems with the next stop announcements to spend a few days travelling with a visually impaired person and then see if you feel the same.

Moaning about accessibility improvements is just selfishness. Not everyone in the world is as lucky as you are to be able to do things so easily and independently.

TfL have had NSAs on all buses for years and the users of the buses have managed to crack on.

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

Having worked in disability with both adults and children the next stop announcements are long over due , for to long the most common form of public transport was out of bounds to many of those who need it the most. Also even from own standpoint as a night shift worker the next stop announcements have stopped me sleeping through my own stop on several occasions

 

[Rail2002]

For one, does the visually impaired passenger need to stay near the button?

They could be at every priority seat.

It must be so nice that the worst thing about boarding a bus is hearing the announcements, rather than for a visually impaired user whose experience of riding the bus is that they can't as they fear they'll not get to their right destination, or that they have to take a carer with them because they can't rely on having the necessary next stop information provided.

I would suggest anyone who is having problems with the next stop announcements to spend a few days travelling with a visually impaired person and then see if you feel the same.

Moaning about accessibility improvements is just selfishness. Not everyone in the world is as lucky as you are to be able to do things so easily and independently.

TfL have had NSAs on all buses for years and the users of the buses have managed to crack on.

As a customer of the bus company, I will voice my opinion of anything that is detrimental to my experience. The difference between the buses that have these announcements and those that don't is night and day.

As others have said, it makes an unpleasant environment. Companies such as Stagecoach request customers not to play videos or music aloud because it is a nuisance to other customers, so it is acknowleged that incessant noise is a nuisance.

 

[TUC]

They could be at every priority seat.

Visually impaired people do not just sit at priority seats. If these seats are taken, they're going to sit elsewhere

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Monday at 11:44 ==

As a customer of the bus company, I will voice my opinion of anything that is detrimental to my experience. The difference between the buses that have these announcements and those that don't is night and day.

As others have said, it makes an unpleasant environment. Companies such as Stagecoach request customers not to play videos or music aloud because it is a nuisance to other customers, so it is acknowleged that incessant noise is a nuisance.

Do you really not get that get that something you find 'unpleasant' is a lower order priority than the independence of disabled people?

@BuhSnarf 's comment that announcements have existed on TfL buses for years without such claimed problems is also a very good point.

 

[GusB]

They could be at every priority seat.

Stop digging! @TUC has already explained so I won't repeat the same point, but your idea of having buttons to trigger announcements is unworkable, not to mention that it will add additional costs to the system.

It would likely be counterproductive anyway; what are the chances of someone pushing that button instead of the bell? You'll end up hearing more announcements because people simply don't pay attention.

As others have said, it makes an unpleasant environment. Companies such as Stagecoach request customers not to play videos or music aloud because it is a nuisance to other customers, so it is acknowleged that incessant noise is a nuisance.

The two things aren't comparable. Playing loud music is antisocial behaviour while next stop announcements are necessary to assist people who have additional accessibility requirements. They're also helpful for tourists and anyone who happens to be travelling on an unfamiliar route.

I've previously stated that I'm not a big fan of them either - I find the announcements to be too loud but I understand why they're there. If it means that someone can travel when they wouldn't otherwise be able to do so, it can only be a good thing.

 

[LucyP]

There are always going to be faults in service. Faults will happen forever.

 

[Rail2002]

Stop digging! @TUC has already explained so I won't repeat the same point, but your idea of having buttons to trigger announcements is unworkable, not to mention that it will add additional costs to the system.

That's your opinion, not a matter of fact. Call for aid buttons are provided next to priority or wheelchair spaces on trains and are very much workable.

If it means that someone can travel when they wouldn't otherwise be able to do so, it can only be a good thing.

Can you show any statistics for how many members of the public avoid using bus services due to the lack of aural announcements?

 

[TUC]

That's your opinion, not a matter of fact. Call for aid buttons are provided next to priority or wheelchair spaces on trains and are very much workable.

I come back to what I said above. Visually impaired people do not just sit in priority seats. Indeed, it would be odd for them to have to do so and take up places for those in particular need of them, such as people with walking difficulties.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Monday at 15:04 ==

Can you show any statistics for how many members of the public avoid using bus services due to the lack of aural announcements?

It isn’t just about avoiding using bus services. It is about being able to live independently, including knowing for oneself when the relevant stop is approaching.

It is rather like asking ‘how many people in wheelchairs avoid using shops because they need to ask for help getting up a small step?’ The answer may be that many do not avoid using shops, but it is clearly more independent and dignified for them if the step is eliminated sp they can access the shop for themselves.

 

[Deerfold]

That's your opinion, not a matter of fact. Call for aid buttons are provided next to priority or wheelchair spaces on trains and are very much workable.

Which they can press once they've heard the announcement about where they are.

Can you show any statistics for how many members of the public avoid using bus services due to the lack of aural announcements?

I don't know the statistics but when I worked on iBus with TfL we used to get a few letters from people glad to be able to use buses unaccompanied.

We had one rant from someone who thought it was a waste of money and only useful for "blind people, tourists and foreigners" though with no explanation why we shouldn't be helping those people.

 

[joieman]

It's not just for the visually-impaired: it's also useful for those unacquainted with a particular area or bus route. Several years ago, I went to visit Green's Windmill in Nottingham without much of a clue about where it was. The announcement on the Red Line 43 for "Windmill Lane" was a dead giveaway!

 

[Leedsbusman]

That's your opinion, not a matter of fact. Call for aid buttons are provided next to priority or wheelchair spaces on trains and are very much workable.

Can you show any statistics for how many members of the public avoid using bus services due to the lack of aural announcements?

You are rather overlooking the fact that the law specifies what is appropriate whether you like it or not!

 

[Rail2002]

You are rather overlooking the fact that the law specifies what is appropriate whether you like it or not!

I know it does, it's part of PSVAR requirements...I don't have to agree with it though and as a customer, I can have an opinion on if it's the right idea or not.

 

[Tempest3K]

Are operators meant to be ensuring these are live on all services now, or are they still allowed to run buses without these systems functioning/switched off?

 

[Leedsbusman]

I know it does, it's part of PSVAR requirements...I don't have to agree with it though and as a customer, I can have an opinion on if it's the right idea or not.

PSVAIR. You of course can have an opinion, just as everyone else has the right to point out its futility.

 

[Deerfold]

Are operators meant to be ensuring these are live on all services now, or are they still allowed to run buses without these systems functioning/switched off?

If they've more than 16 seats, registered since 1973 and used for at least 20 days a year, yes.

 

[jon0844]

It's not just for the visually-impaired: it's also useful for those unacquainted with a particular area or bus route. Several years ago, I went to visit Green's Windmill in Nottingham without much of a clue about where it was. The announcement on the Red Line 43 for "Windmill Lane" was a dead giveaway!

I've zero doubt that some bus users probably hate the fact that out of towners dare to use their buses. They take time asking and paying their fare, then press the button when they get to their stop and hold the bus up.

I swear the people on here who are so selfish as to the needs of others should be considering the use of taxis, and if there's a risk of the taxi driver talking then perhaps getting a car and driving everywhere. Public transport clearly isn't for them.

 

[Tempest3K]

If they've more than 16 seats, registered since 1973 and used for at least 20 days a year, yes.

Cheers - Someone needs to have a word with First York then, Haven't been on a service in the past week that had them operational....

 

[Metroman62]

So if buses are not complying with having AV announcements, who will enforce that they do and if people want to complain, who do they complain to if the bus company does not respond?

 

[BuhSnarf]

As others have said, it makes an unpleasant environment. Companies such as Stagecoach request customers not to play videos or music aloud because it is a nuisance to other customers, so it is acknowleged that incessant noise is a nuisance.

You may find the announcements cause an unpleasant environment to you, visually impaired people are likely to find no announcements a hostile environment to them.

Again... I'd implore you to spend some time with people who struggle to use bus services without accessibility aids and try to improve your understanding as all the suggestions and complaints you have been making strike me as someone who has been lucky enough not to need support and doesn't really understand the benefit that these systems bring to other customers who may not be as lucky as you to use buses without any assistance.

So if buses are not complying with having AV announcements, who will enforce that they do and if people want to complain, who do they complain to if the bus company does not respond?

The local traffic commissioner is who you complain to, I believe it's VOSA that enforce the rules.

I know it does, it's part of PSVAR requirements...I don't have to agree with it though and as a customer, I can have an opinion on if it's the right idea or not.

PSVAR was for ensuring the buses physically are accessible (low floor etc), this is PSVAIR. I am afraid until you have experienced life on both sides your opinion is poorly informed and would probably best being kept to yourself as it's not helpful and is in fact backward thinking.

 

[Leedsbusman]

So if buses are not complying with having AV announcements, who will enforce that they do and if people want to complain, who do they complain to if the bus company does not respond?

To complain: Bus Users UK.
Regulation is with the Traffic Commissioner as ever. I believe some grace time is offered due to the large scale upgrades needed so it’s unlikely action would be taken currently.

 

[CyrusWuff]

To complain: Bus Users UK.
Regulation is with the Traffic Commissioner as ever. I believe some grace time is offered due to the large scale upgrades needed so it’s unlikely action would be taken currently.

Arguably the rest of the industry has had over 15 years to catch up with London (iBus kit has been installed on the entire London fleet since 2009.) It doesn't take a genius to realise that there would be a requirement to introduce next stop announcements and displays throughout the country at some point.

Admittedly most London installs are only partially compliant with PSVAIR as they don't have rear-facing displays visible from the wheelchair spaces though.

 

[robertleic]

How old are the buses? To be compliant with Section 14.3 of the PSVAIR legislation, they would only need one screen facing the back of the vehicle, viewable from all priority seats and forward facing wheelchairs if they entered service before 1st October 2024. Only vehicles newer than that also need a screen viewable from a rear facing wheelchair.

From what I’ve seen in London at least, manufacturers are adhering to this as some 74 plates and everything newer also have a forward facing screen.

first leicester 2023 Wright GB Kite Electroliner don't have a screen facing the wheelchair space, not sure if it's needed

 

[RJ]

first leicester 2023 Wright GB Kite Electroliner don't have a screen facing the wheelchair space, not sure if it's needed

Only buses that entered service on or after 1st October 2024 require one.

 

[Farigiraf]

Can you show any statistics for how many members of the public avoid using bus services due to the lack of aural announcements?

Can you show any statistics for how many members of the public avoid using bus services due to slightly irritating next stop announcements?

 

[Russel]

Is this UK wide or just England?

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

Those that are against the audio announcements are probably the same people who where against buses being wheelchair accessible in the first place

 

[Russel]

Those that are against the audio announcements are probably the same people who where against buses being wheelchair accessible in the first place

I'm not personally against next stop announcements, but I do have to question how beneficial they actually are, especially in my local area, under Arriva.

The announcements are too quiet to hear over the noise of the engine and various ADL/Optare rattles and the screens are too small for anyone without 20/20 vision to see, it seems to be more of a box ticking exercise...